Tube preamp into solid state tape recorder

[PHILANDDON]

Hey all.

I have a Fostex A2 and I've made some nice recordings with it using a solid state preamp. I was toying with picking up a tube preamp and then it occurred to me................that the A2 doesn't have tube electronics...........so my signal would go from the tube preamp back into a solid state electronics of the A2 and so I'd lose the tube vibe.

Or does it not work that way? Thanks in advance for any replies/advice

--Neil

 

[Tim Gillett]

No thankfully it doesnt work that way. The solid state amp in the Fostex A2 should faithfully relay your tube warmth and distortion onto the tape and back out the A2 again.
But the important thing to remember is that "tube warmth" like " analog tape warmth'" is not automatic. It only occurs when you are hard driving the tube amp beyond its normally accurate limits and when you are saturating the tape beyond its. You cant just buy the tube pre or the analog tape machine and the desired effect all comes out like pressing a button on a console.
You still have to make the decision as to how much of the effect you want.

Thinking that somehow the machine's solid state pre's might nullify the tube effect is similar to other misconceptions in this field and is at the root of common errors like thinking running CD audio through an analog tape deck will moderate the "harshness" in the highs of a CD. Assuming there is such harshness, it will only be "moderated" if you drive the tape itself into saturation, in which case you are using the tape as an effect, not a transparent recording device.

You can use the tube effect going into a good analog tape or into a good digital recorder and it will be preserved.

Solid state and tube are not "opposites" warring with each other any more than analog and digital recorders are opposing sides in some global titanic techno struggle. They are both audio recorders, designed first and foremost to be "transparent" relative to the source sounds they record. Think of a good canvas for an artist painting in oils. That's the recorder's function.

Simple isnt it. God knows how we complicate it.

Hope this helps,
Tim G

 

[treymonfauntre]

regardless, i doubt getting some cheap tube preamp will really satisfy your needs anyway

 

[Dr ZEE]

Neil, I'd put it this way: there is no antagonistic (or say, 'neutralizing') conflict between tube electronics and soilid state electronics (per say). Both can be more or less colorizing in its own way depending on circuit design, components, condition of components and of course on how you apply (use) the 'device' (which is a combination of input signal characteristics and value settings of provided variable components).
Specifically, what ever the signal is like at output of your tube preamp will be affected by your recorder's solid state electronics the same way as a signal from a solid state preamp, or no preamp at all would. Another words, the solid state electronics of your recorder is not going specifically target "tube output signals" for annihilation, see what I mean? Hope this make sense to you.

important thing to remember is that "tube warmth" ... is not automatic. It only occurs when you are hard driving the tube amp beyond its normally accurate limits

False. I have nothing to add here (not that I can't), but I don't want to start another "discussion". So, It's just false, period.
But, Just for fun of it, may I ask you, Tim G, what exactly do you "drive gently or beyond its norms" nowdays? Or is it just another "word of wisdom" based on heavy experience?

/respects
*************
Now, Neil, ignore the bellow:
I hate to do it in your thread, but I had to respond ... that's my oblgation

regardless, i doubt getting some cheap tube preamp will really satisfy your needs anyway

Hey, treymonfauntre ... or what ever your name is, How do you even know if Neil is about to get some cheap preamp?

Speaking of being cheap:

the fact that you take the time to hunt down links blows my mind at how much of a god complex you must have

Nop, not in this thread, but in the thread in which treymonfauntre has not make a single post, yet had an urgent need for silent fart, and so he released what could not be held.
treymonfauntre, I missed you, dude. the problem is, though, that you are not telling the truth. One must actually have mind to get it blown.


Now, go back to studying gear prices. Have it your way and have a real good time. After you learn something new, stop by and drop an invaluable note or two.

/no respects what so ever
***********

 

[PHILANDDON]

Thanks for the info. Just out of curiousity where would you think would be a better place to "tube up" your signal:

1) On the way to the tape recorder
2) on the way from the tape recorder to the cd recorder
3) both.

Thanks again for the info!!

 

[A Reel Person]

On the way into the tape recorder.

..................

 

[Dr ZEE]

Just out of curiousity where would you think would be a better place to "tube up" your signal

Since you are using "term" tube up, I take it as you looking at a tube preamp as it was a some sort of "effect" device, which preamps are NOT
To answer your question, I'd put it this way: place it on the way of a signal that "sounds" like needs to be "tubed up" , another words, place it where the "effect" would produce the desireable effect.
What effect and is (or may be) desirable for you and where to apply - you'll know after you try. Again, that is so if we are talking about "effect". Choosing an effect is always a subjective matter.
Preamps are amplifiers. In general you use a preamp between device A and device B to bring the output level of the signal from device A to "match" the best operating (input) level of the Device B. Technically speaking, if "matching" is not needed, then preamp is not needed. The coloration that may be introduced by a preamp rather is a side-effect, and as a fact it is always there. When choosing a preamp, you may desire more coloration, less coloration, more or less coloration of a specific kind for a specific type of source sound (like vocals, different instruments etc) or no coloration at all (which you never get, but can get close ).
Also, keep in mind, that "preamps" are a REAL gold-mine for recording gear manufacturers. Preamps are a perfect zone for smokin'n'laughing'mirror rooms business (you buy a tiket to get a chance to laugh at yourself) and for snake-oil dealers.

/respects

 

[Drewcifer666]

Good sound is good sound...period. Doesn't matter what type of electronics you're using. The most classic signal chain in the history of recording is a Neumann U47 tube mic, in to a Neve 1073 transistor preamp, in to a Teletronix LA-2A tube compressor, in to a transistor analog tape recorder.

But unless you are able to spend a minimum of $1000 per channel, do not buy a tube preamp to get "warmth". You're better of with good solid state gear, ala API, Chandler, Great River, etc. You will get more musicality out of those than the cheap tube gear. There is a market-driven misconception that you need tubes in your signal path to get warmth. (Shoot, I do whole songs without ever using a tube and my stuff sounds really warm and analogish). As a result, the market has created inexpensive tube stuff that distorts easily, lacks headroom, sounds dark, etc. The newbie might think, "That's what tube gear is supposed to sound like!" BZZZZ! Wrong!

Some of it has a tube in there just for looks, not doing a damn thing! If the device has a little window on the front so you can see the tube, beware!

Good tube gear is high headroom, high-fidelity, clean, clear gear. Does it have subtle warmth and a euphonic quality? Yes it does! And it's expensive! I'm referring to names like Manley, DW Fearn, TAB/Funkenwerk, Pendulum Audio, the higher end Groove Tube stuff, etc. $1000/per channel and up.

The warmest piece of gear I have heard lately is solid state, the Chandler Germanium mic preamp. Germanium

EDIT: HERE'S A TUBE-UP ITEM THAT YOU CAN USE IN TRACKING AND MIXING. IT IS NOT A MIC-PRE. RATHER, IT IS A STEREO LINE-LEVEL TUBE COLORATION DEVICE THAT RANGES FROM GENTLE WARMING TO FULL-ON CLIPPING DISTORTION: Culture Vulture

 

[Dr ZEE]

oh boy,
here comes tha' devil

 

[jpmorris]

I could be way-off base here, but something I've noticed is that a lot of classic recordings from around 1968-1971 had this really weird 'thick' drum sound - King Crimson's first album and 'Pantagruel's Nativity' by Gentle Giant spring to mind. Oh yeah, pretty much all the early Van Der Graaf Generator. I'm not aware of any subsequent recordings which had this sound.
Now it might have been the way they mic'd the drums as a limitation of 8-track, but it occurred to me recently that the sound went away around the time they would have been upgrading the consoles from valve to solid-state...