Tube Amp vs. Line 6 Toneport

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ben Logan
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Ben Logan

Ben Logan

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Hey Folks,

I've owned Toneport for about six months now. I've got three Fender Tube Amps in the garage. But, having two young kids, I just don't have much time to set up mics anymore - a heartbreaker!

Line 6 Toneport is my bread and butter for HomeRecording currently. I kind of hate to admit it, but I'm really starting to like this little beast. It'll never substitute for the real deal when you want some earthy grit, but this thing is a load of fun.

Any other "real amp recordists" finding themselves edging toward the "darkside" of homerecording?
 
Ben Logan said:
Hey Folks,

I've owned Toneport for about six months now. I've got three Fender Tube Amps in the garage. But, having two young kids, I just don't have much time to set up mics anymore - a heartbreaker!

Line 6 Toneport is my bread and butter for HomeRecording currently. I kind of hate to admit it, but I'm really starting to like this little beast. It'll never substitute for the real deal when you want some earthy grit, but this thing is a load of fun.

Any other "real amp recordists" finding themselves edging toward the "darkside" of homerecording?
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God no! Pissing off clients is not something I like to do, neither is recording crappy guitar tones. I'm a spoiled brat though so don't listen to me.
 
Yeah - if I we're a "real studio client" I'd run for the hills if an engineer suggested I plug into a POD or TonePort!

That said though, for a lead track, it doesn't sound bad at all. For some reason, it's rhythm tracks that seem to suffer most from lack of a real amp IMO.
 
There was just a whole pissing match about this. Here's a tune that I did recently for some local boys. Probably some of the nicest guitar tracks I've done yet. You tell me what you think the guitar was recorded with. I'll answer truthfully.


 
This subject comes up often and will have people on both sides. I only record from amps because I can, some people don't have the option of cranking one up all the time. I hear the toneport is a good unit. The thing I notice more than just tone quality (which can be debated) is the ease of which i can mix multiple guitar parts that are recorded thru miked amps. I have a friend who comes over with his pod (i don't know what model, one of the big rack units, $600 thing) and he can get some really good tones out of it, really killer stuff, but when I go to mix it, it just dosen't seem to sit in the mix as well.

Doug
 
HangDawg said:
There was just a whole pissing match about this. Here's a tune that I did recently for some local boys. Probably some of the nicest guitar tracks I've done yet. You tell me what you think the guitar was recorded with. I'll answer truthfully.


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I'm going to have to say a modeller. The two guitar tones going on sound way too similar. no variance in the two guitarparts to my ears. a dead giveaway often.

Adam
 
Lou and Hangdawg,

Looking forward to listening to those tracks when I get home Hangdawg. Lou - that's an interesting point about mixing TonePort recorded tracks. They do tend to blend into sort of a phasy-mush when I go to mix to, though they seem to stand up well enough on their own. I wonder though if maybe the dudes who are recording through amps are using different guitars too - that could make a difference when it comes time to mix...give each one it's own space a bit more.

I bought the TP as a toy mainly (not that 130 bucks is easy for me to come by). But, I'm pleasantly surprised. I could see using it on a "final mix." It's giving my Fender Champ a run for the money. No shit! Then again, I'm the world's worst at setting up the mic in the right place twice running, and my garage sounds like ass...
 
HangDawg said:
There was just a whole pissing match about this. Here's a tune that I did recently for some local boys. Probably some of the nicest guitar tracks I've done yet. You tell me what you think the guitar was recorded with. I'll answer truthfully.


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Great tune. I especially like the mid-section with the acoustic guitars.

RE: the guitars. If I hadn't been listening with an "Is this TonePort or are these Marshall stacks" mindset, I would not have questioned the guitars. Then again, I'm more of a clean-fender sounding player, so I'm not an expert. If I had to be critical of the sound, I'd say the mix sounded "cleaner" than it might if there was more bleed between the guitar mics and the drums. But that isn't evidence of modelling, necessarily.

I'm curious to hear the answer...
 
Well when I first started recording I tried just about everything you can think of, vamps, pod's, gt series boss pedals, plugin's, diboxes, you name it. None of it sounds like a Mesa/Vox/Marshall or any other tube amp enough for me to like it or choose it over a tube amp. It was a close race when all I had were solidstate and hybrid amps but once I started my little tube collection, well, it's like giving a kid a ferrari and then making him drive a camaro, when going back to DI. Hell I don't even like pedals in front of amps. What's really sad is I don't even play guitar, I'm sick I tell you, sick.
 
My guess would be a modeler (but i'm listening on 1 computer speaker right now, not even 2)...it's impossible to emulate the beef and character that distance micing adds to a recording...The tones are good though IMO. The band is good too.
 
Hang Dawg - Modeller. While the rhythm sounded really nice (especially in the full band setting, not an easy thing to do), the lead parts at the end gave it away. Good job getting a modeller to sound good though!
 
I'm sorry. It's an american fender strat through dual rectifier mic'd with a beyer M201 on one track and a Sennheiser MD421 for the other. The leads are through the boogie too. Hmmm, really makes you wonder sometimes don't it.
 
HangDawg said:
I'm sorry. It's an american fender strat through dual rectifier mic'd with a beyer M201 on one track and a Sennheiser MD421 for the other. The leads are through the boogie too. Hmmm, really makes you wonder sometimes don't it.
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Ah...but...

Did you use a drum modeler? ;)

I wouldn't have necessarily pegged the guitars as being through a modeler, but the bottom line is that a lot of the times modeler vs. amp boils down to whatever your setup is and what you can do.

I've recorded with both amps and direct using a modeler. It just depends on how late it is and whether there are roommates home at the time.

I prefer to record live amps, but I've also gotten compliments on tones using a DigiTech Genesis I and a Squier '51 guitar, so go figure.

If a TonePort works for you, Ben Logan, given your situation, then go for it.

Modelers have come a lot closer than they used to come in recent years. I bought a Vox AD60VT earlier this year, and I really dig it.

This debate will continue to rage on for years, I'm sure.

Just play what sounds good to you.
 
HangDawg said:
I'm sorry. It's an american fender strat through dual rectifier mic'd with a beyer M201 on one track and a Sennheiser MD421 for the other. The leads are through the boogie too. Hmmm, really makes you wonder sometimes don't it.
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Was any of that tracked with the drums or was a scratch track used and then everything recorded seperately? There really is no bleed that I can detect.

Its a good recording. I don't like that style music so much, but on its own merits I have no complaints for your work as an engineer. The reason I find that "modern" records can be hard to tell if its a tube or modeler is because Mesa have a "hard edged" distortion IMO compared to the old "squishy" Marshall tones of the 70's - 90's. But then tone wise, I don't find modelers bad for that Mesa sound. I find hi-gain from modelers to not be that bad if done right. Its the slight break up sound that is "bad".
 
hiwatt357 said:
Vox AD60VT
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Unless you record with the line out, that isn't really a modeler in the fullest sense of the word. The main issue is the "air". But even then, IMO, most modern recordings are lacking that even if they are mic'd.
 
Outlaws said:
Unless you record with the line out, that isn't really a modeler in the fullest sense of the word. The main issue is the "air". But even then, IMO, most modern recordings are lacking that even if they are mic'd.
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Nope...I don't use the line-out. Although, I've heard that it doesn't sound too bad.

And you're right about most modern recordings not having "air".
 
Outlaws said:
Was any of that tracked with the drums or was a scratch track used and then everything recorded seperately? There really is no bleed that I can detect.

Its a good recording. I don't like that style music so much, but on its own merits I have no complaints for your work as an engineer. The reason I find that "modern" records can be hard to tell if its a tube or modeler is because Mesa have a "hard edged" distortion IMO compared to the old "squishy" Marshall tones of the 70's - 90's. But then tone wise, I don't find modelers bad for that Mesa sound. I find hi-gain from modelers to not be that bad if done right. Its the slight break up sound that is "bad".
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Drums were done by themselves and no scratch tracks were kept. I do have a j-station that I use occasionally. It still does sound like the boogie though. There's some stuff at http://www.catchbent.com/downloads.html that uses the J-station. It's not too bad.
 
To me, the problem with solid state amps is the actual performance, I just play better when I have that depth to the sonority. If I had to worry about noise, I would use my lowatt, a 1 watt amp from Lancaster amps. It has switchable tubes too (can use 12at7, 12 au7 and 12 ax7) so it's kind of the caveman's answer to a modeling amp.
 
Hang Dawg, the guitars sound nice, I didn't get a chance to listen til this morning but I doubt I would've pegged that as a modeller, makes me wanna sell my dc-3 and get a dual rec now. Bastard!
 
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