Tube amp owners, anyone ever try this?

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metalhead28

metalhead28

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I have a 5150 and I made a startling discovery last night while playing around with some effects pedals, searching for different tones.

We've all heard about doing the clean boost thing, using an overdrive pedal with the gain all the way down and the output turned up to boost the signal to a tube amp for a cleaner sound. Well I had tried that in the past and it worked, but it wasn't a huge difference. I never thought it was even worth the time. I still had basically the same tone from my amp.
Well last night I decided to try the clean boost trick in my effects loop instead. I did the same thing, using my MXR Wylde Overdrive, I plugged it into the effects loop, turned the gain all the way down and the output up. Normally the lead channel on my 5150 has a bit of a scratchy high end and not the fattest midrange. This trick totally transformed it. It basically vacuumed out all of the shitty high end and just left me with FAT, smooth, screaming midrange. I had no problems with feedback or noise either. This is the single biggest improvement to my lead tone I've ever made. I'm not exhaggerating, this was not a slight difference, this was unrecognizable as the same amp. This pedal officially stays in my effects loop forever. Live, recording, whatever. This was like a revelation for me.
I urge anyone with a tube amp that gets along well with regular pedals in its effects loop to give it a try. Especially 5150 owners!

If more people already do this I'd like to hear about it. I've never heard of anybody doing this personally. I was actually afraid to do it at first. :D
 
why would you be afraid to hook up effects to the effects loop? ;)

heres what i think- you hook up your effects to the input so that an overdrive overdrives the preamp circuit. if you hook it up in the loop, the signal passes through the preamp already and then through the pedal, so its not going to sound the same.

whatever works for you. some people want that dirty sound.
 
I've never tried that myself. It seems like the overdrive would act as a filter between the pre and power amp. This actually might come in handy for me. I've been using a borrowed 5150 2x12 combo for gigs lately and I really don't like a strat thru it. I'm gonna try a couple overdrives in the loop and see what happens. Hopefully I won't have to use that amp much longer though (I'm building myself a jtm45 type amp). I'm not bad mouthin the 5150 but it does'nt work for me.

Thanks for sharing that idea.
 
ermghoti said:
guitar->pedal->loop return
Click to expand...

That would probably be a good idea if you have a nice overdrive pedal but a crappy preamp section. I might have to try that one too.
 
TragikRemix said:
why would you be afraid to hook up effects to the effects loop? ;)

heres what i think- you hook up your effects to the input so that an overdrive overdrives the preamp circuit. if you hook it up in the loop, the signal passes through the preamp already and then through the pedal, so its not going to sound the same.

whatever works for you. some people want that dirty sound.
Click to expand...

haha, I didn't mean that I was physically afraid to do it. I always use other effects in the loop. I just figured an overdrive pedal in there would sound like shit or would just create crazy noise or something.

I understand what the difference is, I knew it wasn't going to sound the same. I just didn't expect it to work well, you know what I mean?
 
ermghoti said:
You have the pedal in the loop, not guitar->pedal->loop return, right? I run my ADA MP1 like that, mostly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have it in the loop. I'm still plugging my guitar into the amp's input.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
I've never tried that myself. It seems like the overdrive would act as a filter between the pre and power amp. This actually might come in handy for me. I've been using a borrowed 5150 2x12 combo for gigs lately and I really don't like a strat thru it. I'm gonna try a couple overdrives in the loop and see what happens. Hopefully I won't have to use that amp much longer though (I'm building myself a jtm45 type amp). I'm not bad mouthin the 5150 but it does'nt work for me.

Thanks for sharing that idea.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does seem to act as a filter of sorts. I have always loved my 5150 for rhythm tones but have never been super happy with it's lead sound, I always prefered my Marshall. Now I prefer the 5150 by a mile.
Hopefully it will work for you. ;)
 
metalhead28 said:
Yeah, it does seem to act as a filter of sorts. I have always loved my 5150 for rhythm tones but have never been super happy with it's lead sound, I always prefered my Marshall. Now I prefer the 5150 by a mile.
Hopefully it will work for you. ;)
Click to expand...

You're gettin me all excited metalhead. :D
 
With the guitar straight into the amp, the first thing the pickup sees is the tube, whereas with the overdrive on it would see a solid state stage first. That could account for the difference in tone when using the effects loop.
 
mshilarious said:
With the guitar straight into the amp, the first thing the pickup sees is the tube, whereas with the overdrive on it would see a solid state stage first. That could account for the difference in tone when using the effects loop.
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I'm sure that's part of the difference, and that's probably why I don't really like the pedal in front of the amp. I also think that the overdrive being after the pre-amp is somehow filtering the sound. It really changes the character of it. The thing with that amp is that the midrange does get fatter as you turn it up, but the high end also gets worse and worse. You also get more noise and more feedback. With the overdrive in there I got all the fatness and even more, but I also sucked out all the nasty high end, and got rid of noise. And I didn't need to crank up the amp much at all, I had the volume at tolerable indoor levels. It really does sound like a different amp.
 
Take the following with a grain of salt as I do not know the signal flow for the 5150; that being said, the effects loop generally falls after the pre-amp V1 or V2 depending. The output of the pre-amp then goes to loop, then to driver tube, then to power stage. THe net effect is a hotter signal to the output stage and the "natural Eq" of the booster you are using. It sounds to me that the real pleasing result is a combination of the two. Do you have a Tubescreamer?, MXR Dynacomp, a compressor of any type, or maybe a true linear power booster ala R.G. Keen. The tubscreamer will sound different "flavor", the LPB will retain the sound of the pre-amp, so will a compressor if it is atl east semi-transparent but will drive your power section as hard as you want. Use caution and don't overdo the gain. In essence you are pushing V(whatever..insert #) the driver tube usually a 12 At7 harder and providng some EQ. Lots of folks will place an EQ at this place in the chain which eq's and can boost, which is what an Eq. is, a frequency selective booster/attenuator. Have fun, I have used that trick many times and is lots of good tone. On another note, the pre-amp output on most high gain amps is a bit fizzzy, the eq. post pre-amp really helps out. The EQ section on a mesa mark is post pre and before the output stage. Yummy. Peace.
 
Thurgood said:
Take the following with a grain of salt as I do not know the signal flow for the 5150; that being said, the effects loop generally falls after the pre-amp V1 or V2 depending. The output of the pre-amp then goes to loop, then to driver tube, then to power stage. THe net effect is a hotter signal to the output stage and the "natural Eq" of the booster you are using. It sounds to me that the real pleasing result is a combination of the two. Do you have a Tubescreamer?, MXR Dynacomp, a compressor of any type, or maybe a true linear power booster ala R.G. Keen. The tubscreamer will sound different "flavor", the LPB will retain the sound of the pre-amp, so will a compressor if it is atl east semi-transparent but will drive your power section as hard as you want. Use caution and don't overdo the gain. In essence you are pushing V(whatever..insert #) the driver tube usually a 12 At7 harder and providng some EQ. Lots of folks will place an EQ at this place in the chain which eq's and can boost, which is what an Eq. is, a frequency selective booster/attenuator. Have fun, I have used that trick many times and is lots of good tone. On another note, the pre-amp output on most high gain amps is a bit fizzzy, the eq. post pre-amp really helps out. The EQ section on a mesa mark is post pre and before the output stage. Yummy. Peace.
Click to expand...

The pedal I'm using is the MXR "Wylde" overdrive. I used to use a Boss EQ pedal in the effects loop for a lead boost but that was with my Marshall. I would cut some of the top end and boost the midrange. It was a similar result, but the overdrive pedal seems to be much more effective for me with my 5150. I suppose it could just be the chance combination of my amp and that particular pedal. Tonight I'm going to try this trick on my other amps to see what it gives me.
After reading your post I'm going to try my compressor pedal in there too just for the hell of it. I've never tried that either. :D
 
Tell us how it turns out. I think I will try my Jekyl & Hyde in the loop of my Marshall as it contains both an overdrive and a distortion in one pedal. I had just gotten out of the habit of doing the loop trick. I have used a VLA compressor with good results as I add just a dab of compression and add extra makeup gain. I always enjoy your posts by the way. You come up with some good stuff. :)
 
Thanks, I am going to try it out on my Twin. Now do I do it before the neighbours get their kids to bed or after...heh heh.
 
I use an MXR Micro amp in the loop for a clean boost. In front of the amp it works like a gain boost but in the loop it is a volume boost. It works really great. The other thing I do is put an EQ pedal in the loop.
 
I tried it but it didn't do much for me, but I have never been totally happy with the effects loop on my amp, I get better results from putting the effect before the amp.
 
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