tsr-8 Repair or Replace crisis

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ding Dong
  • Start date Start date
D

Ding Dong

New member
Hello. Ive got a broken tascam TSR-8. It shut down on me a few months ago and i've been heartbroken and confused ever since. I was in the middle of a recording session, trying to listen back to what i had just recorded, and figure out why i was hearing nothing. Then, mid-rewind, the machine slowly grinded to a halt, leaving two reels of tape forever connected, $2000's worth of mixer and mics un-used, and one sad recordist with a lump in his throat. Now that tax return time is around the corner, I want to get things running again and im faced with the delema of getting it fixed (i live about 8 hours from the tascam HQ in southern california) or replacing it. The way i look at it, i have several options:

1) drive to los angeles with the broken machine and get someone to fix it for an unknown, potentialy very high price.
2) Purchase a new TSR-8 on ebay and keep the old one around for parts.
3) Sell the broken one and purchase a Tascam 38 for its (supposedly) more rugged chasis and cooler VU meters.
4) Sell the TSR-8 and the 16 channel Allen & Heath mixer, and then look for a tascam 388.
5) Continue to use my cassette four track and spend my tax return on liquor and food.

I'd love to hear the opinions of all you analog freaks out there, i respect your guys opinions a lot.
 
Were you getting good results before with the TSR-8 and the tape and all of a sudden it quit?

Buying a new (old) machine may only bring unforeseen problems with that deck. The problem with your current TSR-8 could be very simple. :)
 
i was getting great results. i had some problems with the capstan drive belt falling off, and i lost a lot of screws in the process of replacing it. then it worked great for a whileagain. Then all of a sudden, i couldn't make it record. the meters would light up and show a signal when i would record or monitor the tracks, but i could only hear a very, VERY faint echo of a signal when i would listen back to them. i started to fear that something had gone wrong with the record head. Then, in the same session, the FF and REW stopped working, first slowing down, then stopping altogether. So i could potentialy have a shot motor as well as ruined heads. Every authorized tascam repair place ive called in the SF bay area says they would have to send it to tascam to get it fixed, and when i ask them how much it will cost, they say at least $500.
 
Ding Dong said:
Hello. Ive got a broken tascam TSR-8. It shut down on me a few months ago and i've been heartbroken and confused ever since. I was in the middle of a recording session, trying to listen back to what i had just recorded, and figure out why i was hearing nothing. Then, mid-rewind, the machine slowly grinded to a halt, leaving two reels of tape forever connected, $2000's worth of mixer and mics un-used, and one sad recordist with a lump in his throat. Now that tax return time is around the corner, I want to get things running again and im faced with the delema of getting it fixed (i live about 8 hours from the tascam HQ in southern california) or replacing it. The way i look at it, i have several options:

1) drive to los angeles with the broken machine and get someone to fix it for an unknown, potentialy very high price.
2) Purchase a new TSR-8 on ebay and keep the old one around for parts.
3) Sell the broken one and purchase a Tascam 38 for its (supposedly) more rugged chasis and cooler VU meters.
4) Sell the TSR-8 and the 16 channel Allen & Heath mixer, and then look for a tascam 388.
5) Continue to use my cassette four track and spend my tax return on liquor and food.

I'd love to hear the opinions of all you analog freaks out there, i respect your guys opinions a lot.
Click to expand...

What do the heads and guides look like....(go take a look and let us know)
 
Ding Dong said:
i was getting great results. i had some problems with the capstan drive belt falling off, and i lost a lot of screws in the process of replacing it. then it worked great for a whileagain. Then all of a sudden, i couldn't make it record. the meters would light up and show a signal when i would record or monitor the tracks, but i could only hear a very, VERY faint echo of a signal when i would listen back to them. i started to fear that something had gone wrong with the record head. Then, in the same session, the FF and REW stopped working, first slowing down, then stopping altogether. So i could potentialy have a shot motor as well as ruined heads. Every authorized tascam repair place ive called in the SF bay area says they would have to send it to tascam to get it fixed, and when i ask them how much it will cost, they say at least $500.
Click to expand...

What Dave said... fuses.

And what Ethan said... tape path -- heads and guides.

Hopefully we can avoid $500.00. Have you removed the tape and take-up reel as a pair, and tried another tape? Was the tape new, and what kind of tape?
 
As far as i can tell, the heads look fine. I usually clean them with a q-tip and some radioshack tape head cleaning fluid. This is the only R2R i've ever owned though, so I haven't seen enough bad heads to really know what they look like.

While testing it out tonight i noticed that (with no tape on it) when I press rewind, the reel hubs spin in opposite directions- eg. When I hit FF, they both spin counter-clockwise. When i hit REW, the left reel spins clockwise and the right reel spins counter-clockwise. this seemed weird to me- is it? could it be causing my inability to rewind? I should also mention that I can't recall if FF was working or not last time i used the machine.

i was using used ampex 456. I ordered it from a place called Tape-Tape in los angeles. They sell "recycled" tapes. Its the same place I purchased all my other tape, which has worked fine.

about fuses- How easy is it to get to them? I found the inside of this thing very intimidating when I had to fix the capstan belt. After I fixed the belt and put it back together I had a handful of screws and no idea where they were supposed to go...
 
Ding Dong said:
I found the inside of this thing very intimidating when I had to fix the capstan belt.
Click to expand...

however, i DO want to learn how to fix these things. the TSR 8 seems to be a lot more computerized and full of circuit boards that the 38... from what i can estimate, never having seen the inside of a 38....
 
Ding Dong said:
i was using used ampex 456. I ordered it from a place called Tape-Tape in los angeles. They sell "recycled" tapes. Its the same place I purchased all my other tape, which has worked fine.
Click to expand...

Sounds like good news!

Your reel motors are fine… they will spin just as you describe with no reels on the deck.

One problem is most likely your tape. Going by the symptoms, type of tape and the business you bought from I can already say you are probably experiencing SSS (Sticky-Shed Syndrome).

Certain AMPEX tapes have a chemical binder problem where the tape gets sticky and causes the transport to stop from friction, usually during rewind or play. There may be nothing else wrong with your machine except perhaps a blown fuse as well, which happens when the motors are trying to drag the bad tape along.

See the following thread for more info.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=228067

You’ll need to buy brand new tape (from someone else) before continuing. You'll also need to clean the tape path (heads & guides) with Q-tips and Isopropyl alcohol before using the machine. 91% or higher alcohol content is best. You can get it from most drug stores, but may have to ask the pharmacist.

:)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, Tim, but doesn't "tape tape" belong to that criminal selling bad tape with erroneous descriptions, that you talked about in an earlier thread ? :confused:
 
cjacek said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, Tim, but doesn't "tape tape" belong to that criminal selling bad tape with erroneous descriptions, that you talked about in an earlier thread ? :confused:
Click to expand...

Yes... that's the one. :mad:

Guys like that know enough to bake the bad tape so it will appear to be fine at first. If buying from eBay, the feedback will have been left and dispute options expired before the tape goes bad again.

Guys like that are the reason I initiated “Operation Sticky Storm.” ;)
 
AKA, "The Sticky Shed Project" :D
 

Attachments

  • sssprjt.webp
    sssprjt.webp
    12.1 KB · Views: 215
Ding Dong said:
As far as i can tell, the heads look fine. I usually clean them with a q-tip and some radioshack tape head cleaning fluid. This is the only R2R i've ever owned though, so I haven't seen enough bad heads to really know what they look like.

While testing it out tonight i noticed that (with no tape on it) when I press rewind, the reel hubs spin in opposite directions- eg. When I hit FF, they both spin counter-clockwise. When i hit REW, the left reel spins clockwise and the right reel spins counter-clockwise. this seemed weird to me- is it? could it be causing my inability to rewind? I should also mention that I can't recall if FF was working or not last time i used the machine.

i was using used ampex 456. I ordered it from a place called Tape-Tape in los angeles. They sell "recycled" tapes. Its the same place I purchased all my other tape, which has worked fine.

about fuses- How easy is it to get to them? I found the inside of this thing very intimidating when I had to fix the capstan belt. After I fixed the belt and put it back together I had a handful of screws and no idea where they were supposed to go...
Click to expand...


So I asked about the heads and guides because it sounded like SSS. When you clean the heads and guides are you getting any (I mean any) black/brown stuff back on your q-tip? There should be none at all. +-

In SSS the tape sheds oxide and binder to the parts it contacts (heads etc).

The contact between he heads and tape is lost with a resulting loss of audio. Of course the oxide that is shed no longer carries you signal as well. And this stuff is sticky and will bring the tape to a stop.

Lets rule SSS out before we go diving into the deck or pocketbook.
 
ok- so....
first i'll go ahead and clean the heads- i doubt they will be free of the grime that beck mentioned. what about tapes that i have already recorded that i bought from the same place? they didn't give me problems before- should i test them out or could this cause even more damage?

its a litttle dissapointing that tapetape is selling suspicious tapes, as they came highly recommended from a great pro studio in sacramento (pus-caverns)

ill try to get my hands on a new reel of tape today, but ill probobly have to drive to san fran-silly-cisco to get it.

what problem do you think the fuse could be causing?

also, what's the best way to get the bad tape off of the takeup reel? should i just throw it back on the machine (after cleaning) and avoid the play button?
 
If no tape is loaded & RW/FF is activated,...

the reels will spin in opposite directions, and this is normal. Typically, the [movement direction] function will have more torque on one hub, and the opposite hub will spin lightly in the opposite direction to provide back tension, thus preventing tape spills & such.

I'm not sure where the fuses on the TSR8 are, but I'd look up in the main power supply area that lies between the reel motors. Make sure the TSR8 is unplugged when poking around in this area! Shock hazard! :eek: ;)

I'm of the mind to favor:
5) Continue to use my cassette four track and spend my tax return on liquor and food.
4) Sell the TSR-8 and the 16 channel Allen & Heath mixer, and then look for a tascam 388.
or
1) drive to los angeles with the broken machine and get [TASCAM FACTORY SERVICE IN MONTEBELLO] to fix it for an unknown, potentialy very high price.

PS: what seems like a very high price is worth it in the long run, as it will be fixed right & there won't be any unnecessary, unwise or unguided rerepair fiascos like you'd tend to get from any other non-Tascam repair bench. Ask Goldenvoice388 about repairs and pitfalls thereof. Tascam Factory Service in Montebello will fix your Tascam TSR8 with a minimum of muss & fuss, and for a reasonable price, as they are very sure and effecient in what they do.

My main inclination is to get the TSR8 fixed, as it's a fine basis for a home recording studio. I'd not transition sideways or downward in function and quality, just because I was hesitant to fix the TSR8. Stay the course. When you get Tascam to look at the TSR8, it might not be as heavy-duty of a repair as you suppose. Granted, these machines are incredibly difficult to repair as a layman. You practically have to have previous tech experience and tech-bench tools & setup to do it right, which the typical home recording musician does not have. :eek: ;)

... not that I have any problem whatsoever with Tascam 4-track cassette Portastudios or the 388, whic are fine machines in their own right.

That's my 2¢, and I'll get off the line for now. :eek: ;)
 
should i avoid 456 from now on? is there a safer kind of tape that wouldn't require re-biasing? how about 406 or 499? should i try a different company?

dave- the 388 has been tempting me for a long time and ive heard nothing but good things about it. however i have the same skeptisism about buying a 388 as i do about buying a DVD/VCR combo- if one side breaks, the other side becomes much less useful- does this logic (or lack therof) apply to the 388?

i'm not opposed to driving 8 hours to get it fixed, as long as tascam is willing to put their stamp of approval on the box after it's done.

it's also missing a foot... so maybe i should replace it... :)
 
If it happened to me, I'd get it repaired regardless of the cost. (That said, I do have three machines, the third having a major electrical fault and thus being mostly for parts so I'd probably have a crack at it myself first).

I don't have the service manual to hand (I'm halfway through a house move - all the studio is moved, but the desk containing the manuals isn't), but I'm 99% sure the fuse board is on the 'top' of the machine by the reel motors so you'll have to get the outer cover off. This is not too hard, and it's definitely worth checking first.
 
Did some more testing- heres what i found:

1- The heads were filthy.

2- FF and REW work fine.

3- playback works fine- previous recordings sound crisp and clear.

4- Recording is awful. After cleaning the heads, i plugged in a mixer and a mic and tested tracks 1 and 2. The VU meter lights up and is very responsive while i am monitoring and recording. when i listen back to my recording, only the first 2 bars of the VU meter light up- playback reveals a VERY quiet and washed-out sounding signal of my recording surrounded by mountains of hiss. actually, its not hiss, more like white noise or static or a jet engine taking off.
5-the heads cleaned up nicely, except the gold-colored head on the righthand side (I assume this is the record head) has little spots on it that look kind of white and cloudy and wouldn't go away with cleaning.

thats the update.
 
It's definitely the tape not the machine at this point. The recording problems all sound like typical Sticky Shed symptoms. Having left the heads sitting full of residue for a while could cause discoloration on the rec/play head, but you could have some stubborn residue that needs to come off yet.

For now just avoid AMPEX brand until you know exactly how to tell the old sticky stuff from the non-sticky.

Get some new Quantegy 456 or RMGI SM 911. You won’t be able to evaluate the machine any further without new tape from a reputable dealer. And though you may be tempted by the “One-Pass” tape deal, keep in mind once the seal is broken, you have no idea what’s on the reel. You may get old AMPEX tape in a Quantegy box, so shop wisely… get out of the recycled stuff altogether.

It would be a good idea to clean everything 2 or 3 times, as sticky shed can be a bit tough to eliminate with one cleaning.

If you have tapes you need to recover the material from see the Sticky Shed Help Thread I posted a link to before. You’ll have to bake the tapes in a small food dehydrator available at Wal-Mart for around $40.00.

Sticky shed can mimic much more serious problems and many people have rolled machines into storage or the trash heap unaware that there was really nothing wrong with the machine itself.

If you could attach a pic of your rec/play head that would be helpful.

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top