trying out preamps at the good old store

[bunnygirl]

ok. well i just spent 2 hours reading a gizzilion posts on preamps. my eyes are like on the floor. did a quick search but no results. so question for you is:

What is the most effective way to try out preamps at the store before buying them? The most gracious way? The most telling way? the store i'm going to has a rack set up i do beleive of compressors/limiters, not sure if they have pre's set up. i'll probab do a test with a sm58. want to to tote the c1 along, but i don't trust myself not to drop and ding it. thanks in advance all. -

-your cheery bunnygirl

*stuck in the cage but getting some darn good acoustics with 2-inch ferreted wire*

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

I think the novelty of a *girl/woman* coming into the store with her very own C1 and asking about preamps will more than do the trick.


Gus

 

[ausrock]

Especially if da wabbit has read up on some pre's first and sounds like she knows what she is talking about.............there ain't nothing like putting a "know it all" salesman in his place.

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

I havent met a salesman who knows it all. They usually just smile alot, call you by your first name 5 or 6 times and tell some tall tale about how they used the piece of gear you just mentioned on the last gig they had with some derivative band.
Oh and the sound was "big" and "warm" and surprisingly transparent.

 

[heylow]

Unfortunately.....



...I agree wholeheartedly with JuSumPilgrim on both accounts.

I would definitely bring the C1 just because a condenser tells a bit more about a pre, in my opinion. From there, just plug into a few and try to listen as best you can to the subtle nuances....noise, warmth, colored or transparent sound, trueness, etc.

It's all about what you're looking for and don't let anyone steer you into something you are not absolutely sure about. It's their job to serve you and if you're being polite, there's no reason for them to not do there job.

Now, on a technical level, I don't know any tricks....anybody got anything like Harvey's cool condenser mic tests?!?


heylow
Rock Jedi/Indie Snob
www.heylowsoundsystem.net

 

[heylow]

WAIT.....

...I JUST thought of something that *might* work:

Whatever sounds good, buy two and send me one....we'll compare our findings and if we both like our new pres, then you have a winner. If not, then you buy another and we do it again!

Yep, that'd do it.


heylow
Rock Jedi/Indie Snob
www.heylowsoundsystem.net

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I really don't think you can do a valid mic pre comparison at the store....

You need to try it out in your own rig in your own environment. If you are a regular store customer it is very likely that they may let you try a couple out at a time for a day or two.

If you're serious about the comparison and have any sort of regular relationship with the store, this shouldn't be an issue.

If not, go to another store or you will need to buy one, try it, record some samples with it (so you can compare these samples with another one), then go back and exchange the unit for another. Do the same thing with each subsequent pre (recording the same samples each time) and keep comparing.

When you've made your decision by listening to each of your samples, exchange the last pre for the one that sounds the best.

Time-consuming? You bet........ but unless you buy ALL the pres you want to test at the same time, there's no other way, except... to call the store in advance, telling a salesperson that you're interested in mic pres and that you want to do comparisons on the pres they have. If he wants the sale, he'll set things up so that you can record sample clips (to take home) and you can create the clips at the store. Go home, listen to the samples - DON'T make a decision at the store - then come back once you've heard the clips in your environment.

Bruce

 

[bunnygirl]

you guys are silly. thanks for all the great advice above. Heylow, good idea, and i'll do it if you send me a check for $2000. hehe. and Bruce, I think I'm going to follow your advice and not decide at the store where you can barely hear yourself talking over all the drums and electric guitars going. i think i'm gonna have to buy and try and return if no like. which i hesitate to do because it's so awkward returning things so often. but hey, it's legal and completely allowed so what the heck. time consuming yes, but i guess in the end it's wiser to make a careful decision than a rash decision. either way i'm going to have to run back to the store i bet. ok now i have to decide whether I should go for the mackie 1202 (for cost effectiveness) or a joe meek VC6Q/1Q or something a bit higher grade.... eeek too many choices and not enough money....

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Can I ask what price you're looking in and what kind of pre/features are you looking for. (ie, transparent/natural-sounding or something colorful)?

We can help you narrow down some of your choices if you've decided your options in these 2 areas....

Bruce

 

[bunnygirl]

um... no more than $550-$600 for the pre.... quiet, warm and presence (intimate) ... i'm needing it for my vocals, i have a smoother ani difranco-ish voice.... and what exactly is transparency.... it's so hard to describe tonal quals and color, don't you agree...?
BLUE: well it's a color that sounds... um.. cold... um... like stone... um and it sounds like the sky
RED: it's sounds angry and it's like summer...
gosh why did the sound gods ever start using the word color for tone? warm, cold, transparant. anyone want to give a go at describing these terms via analogy or any other creative description you can think of? Here's my take so far.. though I have new untrained ears.

COLD: far away, thin, robotic sounding
WARM: softer, closer, intimate, full
TRANSPARENT:?????
CLEAN: no effects, plain and clear

hmm what other words are there?

thanks!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

If I were you, I'd strongly consider waiting for the forthcoming RNMP (Really Nice Mic Pre) from FMR Audio.... it is anticipated to be the RNC of the mic pre world and should be around your price range....

I honestly don't think the Joe Meek is going to give you what you're looking for, you'll do better with a clean transparent pre than you you would with one having the color built-in.

I beleive the RNMP is in testing now, but it should be available soon............

A great option for you would be a Grace 101, but it's slightly out of your price range.

Alternately, you may want to consider the MindPrint En-Voice, the PreSonus VXP, or the PreSonus MP20.

Bruce

 

[Michael Jones]

Bunny, you forgot:
CRISP
AIRY
SHIMMERING
FULL
ROUND

I ain't gonna try and define those though, uh-uh, not me, not no how, not no way!

How come no one suggested the ART PRO MPA? Its about $550. Its the one I use. A really good entry-level mic pre.

 

[A1MixMan]

Hello BunnyGirl, if that is your REAL name...

I JUST bought the Mackie 1202VLZ PRO.
The Pre's sound great to me.
With my Neumann TLM 103 mic and my Mackie HR824's monitors.

That is the reason I bought the 1202 VLZ Pro, for it's mic pre's.
I didn't really need a mixer for my computer based studio, but it works great for me.
Although I didn't listen to anything before buying it, I did read alot about it on the net, very positive.
As Mackie says, these are the same mic pres that they put on their $50,000 consoles.

I am very happy with it.
In your price range, you might get the 1404 VLZ Pro instead.
I wanted the smallest foot print, so I got the 1202.

Good luck and until we meet again...

A1MixMan - Keep on making music.

 

[Frank P.]

Hmmm...Mackie didn't have any $50,000 dollar consoles last time I checked. Funny thing is, the XDR pres in the 1202VLZs and such are somewhat better than the non-XDRs the much more expensive (but still WAY less than 50 grand) 8-bus mixers are getting right now anyway from what I've heard...go figure.

But, not to nitpick dumb details...A1MixMan is right. The Mackie pres are pretty good. I think my local dealer quoted an average cost of something like $62/channel for Mackie pres, and you'd have to spend nearly 10 times that to get clearly better performance in an outboard pre. There is unquestionably better performance available at higher costs, but the Mackie pres are a great deal...and you get a free mixing board attached! lol

-Frank

 

[chessrock]

Now I get it. If I want some good advice on preamps, all I have to do is register as a new user . . . pretend I am of the female persuasion . . . and include something enticing, like "Bunny" somewhere in the handle.

Alright fellas, beware . . . when you least expect it, you just might find yourself giving advice on a/d converters to someone who goes by the name "California Hottie," "Silk Muffy," or "Lil' ol Schoolgirl."

Just don't get fresh with me, okay?

 

[A1MixMan]

Your right Frank

I quoted (or mis-quoted) the Mackie manual.

Here's the REAL quote:

VLZ Mix Architecture
When designing a mixing circuit, the lowest noise and best crosstalk specs are achieved by using Very Low Impedance (VLZ). To implement VLZ in a mixer, the power supply must be able to deliver plenty of current to the circuitry. That's why "wall wart" mixers are often noisy-they can't power a VLZ circuit.
At Mackle, audio quality is much more important than the price of wall warts. All of our mixers employ VLZ and built-in power supplies that deliver more than enough current, resulting in sonic specifications that rival consoles upwards of $50,000!

And here I was thinking Mackie made $50,000 mixers.
Way to burst my bubble, Frank! ;-)

A1MixMan

 

[Frank P.]

Sorry A1MixMan...

Didn't mean to burst your bubble, lol...but what Mackie's really trying to do is to skip straight over Soundcraft and Allen & Heath, and claim that their boards compete with Neves and SSLs costing at least $50,000 and often much more...sorry, but I don't quite buy that one...lol

They're certainly fine for home recording use though, Mackie's claims that their Analog 8-Bus units mix platinum hit records notwithstanding...

-Frank

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Q: How did they design the Mackie pres to sound SO good?

A: Advertising.........

 

[Mark H.]

Buns,

I won't have any first-hand experience with it for another two months, but in the price range you're discussing for a microphone preamp, I just bet $630.50 on the Davisound TB-6. Four channels, nothing but great user comments, hand built. Worth considering.

Mark H.

 

[Frank P.]

Blue Bear-

Awwww...you mean they didn't mix those solely on the 8-bus? I heard they didn't even use any outboard gear except the mics, just the Mackie EQs and Mackie Pres and...well, analog Mackie's don't have dynamics onboard...lol

But seriously Blue Bear, thanks for putting my thoughts into much better (and more humorous words) than I did.

-Frank

P.S. I use an older non-VLZ Mackie SR 24-4 to do live sound for a local high school play every year. Makes the Mackie VLZs sound almost perfect by comparison... but now this is turning into a Mackie pro and con and not preamps in general. Sorry.