Tried recording friends drums, sounded like poop

[strat0tele]

I have these projects that i've metronomed and normally put drum machine to but my friend recently got a 16/4 Berhinger mixer, some crappy mics and a hard drive recorder with 2 inputs simulatenously. I've imported my metronomed tracks for him to play over thinking it would go ok, but its been awful.

I tried everything possible and it totally sounded like garbage. It is a small room and i've tried every combo possible, 2 stereo overheads, one kick, one snare, or just 1 overhead and one on the kick and no matter what it sounded weak as hell. The cymbals sound like shit, and everything sounds like puny crap. I need suggestions on what I could do.

Mics - CAD pro-7
Kit - gretsch catalina birch
cymbals - sabian xs cymbals

I think that the crash sounds the worst because the sound just rings on forever. Should it be muted? And the snare has an awful overtone that rings on. Should that be muted to? I don't know much about drums and he said it was tuned properly, but the snare didn't have much balls to it.

What is the problem here, is there anyway to get a usable sound? I really wanted to get some real drum tracks on my recordings but if its going to sound like mucho ass i'll stick to drum machine. I know those mics suck but I would figure I could get some usable sound out of them. I have a 57, 58 and B1 at home, should I try and record with them, and would I get a better sound possibly?

 

[ez_willis]

I16/4 Berhinger mixer, some crappy mics and a hard drive recorder with 2 inputs simulatenously.

This is part of the problem for sure.


How do the drums sound to you when you're in the room? If you think they sound good live but crappy recorded, the problem is in the recording process. If they sound crappy to you live, nothing you can do with mic placement is going to fix it.

 

[patlang12]

I recorded my friends drums with those mics. We only used one overhead, a snare mic and bass drum mic and it came out pretty good. He has a vintage rogers set (but it hadn't been tuned in months!) and paiste 2002 cymbals. They were recorded live with the whole band in an untreated garage. You can hear the songs at http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/boomtownbluesbandmusic.htm

 

[strat0tele]

This is part of the problem for sure.


How do the drums sound to you when you're in the room? If you think they sound good live but crappy recorded, the problem is in the recording process. If they sound crappy to you live, nothing you can do with mic placement is going to fix it.

The drums sound good I think. Much better than his old Maple Venus kit. Its that damn snare and cymbals that when miked, The cymbals ring on forever and the snare has an awful overtone, but this is not audible with just playing. it sounds fine when just listening.

 

[ez_willis]

I'm not familiar with the mics you listed, but do a search for 'M/S micing', or 'XY micing' for some tips on 2 mic placement. Are you in a position to borrow a couple of mics from someone to see if it helps?

 

[strat0tele]

I'm not familiar with the mics you listed, but do a search for 'M/S micing', or 'XY micing' for some tips on 2 mic placement. Are you in a position to borrow a couple of mics from someone to see if it helps?

I'm going to try using my 58 as an overhead, 57 as kick, and i'll somehow use my B1 as a room mic. if that doesn't sound any better than the shitty mics he's got then it's time to blame in on the kit.

 

[scrubs]

I'm going to try using my 58 as an overhead, 57 as kick, and i'll somehow use my B1 as a room mic. if that doesn't sound any better than the shitty mics he's got then it's time to blame in on the kit.

O.K., that sounds like a bad idea. I would use the B1 as an overhead, and NOT use the 57 or 58 on kick (they don't have the frequency response to handle that chore). Whatever kick mic you have with the CAD kit is probably better than a 57/58. You could put the 57/58 on the beater side of the kick to capture the "click" as long as you reverse the phase (I wouldn't do this, though, since it sounds like you are submixing to 2 channels). Room mics are optional, especially since you said it is a really small room (which usually = crappy sounding room).

Make sure all the drums are tuned properly. Also, look into damper rings for the heads (which can tighten up the sound). If the ceilings are low, put the overhead closer to the cymbals. If it is higher, you can move it up away from them a bit.

Read the drum miking articles here. Start with one mic (B1) and add mics where you feel they are needed (kick, snare). Since you are submixing, the fewer mics the better. It makes things less complicated.

http://artistpro.com/index.php?module=PnCourses&func=getPage&course_id=22&page_id=107

 

[Reggie]

Dude, I think this can pretty much boil down to mic placement. Sure, the Behri mixer, the cad mics, and the terrible room don't help, but with a little work and experimentation you should be able to get something workable.

Try rigging up some sound dampening in that room: heavy blankets, vertical couches in the corner, couch cushions, etc. Might help tame some cymbal reflections.

Use whatever Cad kick mic on the kick. Point it at the beater, anywhere from 4" to 12" away depending on what sounds best to you. If you don't have a mic stand for it, pile up some heavy blankets or cloths in the drum (take off the front head) and lay the mic securely on them.
Use your 57 on the snare. If you put it too close, the proximity effect will pick up too much "pong" sound. Pull it back a few inches and point it kind of across the drum at the center of the top head. Adjust till it sounds good.
On whatever overheads you have, try pointing them more down at the kit instead of at the cymbals. They are not supposed to be cymbal mics only.

Oh, and tape a little wad of TP to whatever drum heads you hear ringing too much, but don't overdo it. You can also tape some of that thick foamy kinda tape stuff to the bottom of the cymbals if they ring too much.

That's about all I can suggest without hearing it myself; you're gonna hafta get creative yourself from here. Hope this helps a little.

 

[EdWonbass]

Dude, I think this can pretty much boil down to mic placement. Sure, the Behri mixer, the cad mics, and the terrible room don't help, but with a little work and experimentation you should be able to get something workable.

Try rigging up some sound dampening in that room: heavy blankets, vertical couches in the corner, couch cushions, etc. Might help tame some cymbal reflections.

Use whatever Cad kick mic on the kick. Point it at the beater, anywhere from 4" to 12" away depending on what sounds best to you. If you don't have a mic stand for it, pile up some heavy blankets or cloths in the drum (take off the front head) and lay the mic securely on them.
Use your 57 on the snare. If you put it too close, the proximity effect will pick up too much "pong" sound. Pull it back a few inches and point it kind of across the drum at the center of the top head. Adjust till it sounds good.
On whatever overheads you have, try pointing them more down at the kit instead of at the cymbals. They are not supposed to be cymbal mics only.

Oh, and tape a little wad of TP to whatever drum heads you hear ringing too much, but don't overdo it. You can also tape some of that thick foamy kinda tape stuff to the bottom of the cymbals if they ring too much.

That's about all I can suggest without hearing it myself; you're gonna hafta get creative yourself from here. Hope this helps a little.

These are all good tips. Remember it doesn't have to be pretty. A lot of duct tape can go a long way. It may take days to get it right but once you do you will know what works and what doesn't. Take notes as you experiment.

 

[PhilGood]

I dunno. Sounds to me like the whole problem is the overheads are too close. If all you're getting is cymbal ring and snare overtones, either they're too close or the preamp is too hot.

XS Cymbals ring. It's their nature. The snare sounds like it needs tuning. If the ring happens no matter where you tune it, tighten it up and then take the tension completely out of one lug. That'll kill the ring. Tighten the bottom head, too.

 

[heroics321]

you should also take into account what the drums will sound like in a full mix. use the tips above, and if you're still driving yourself crazy, add in some quick little guitar parts, you will most likely hear that annoying crash and those snare overtones vanish.

 

[strat0tele]

I dunno. Sounds to me like the whole problem is the overheads are too close. If all you're getting is cymbal ring and snare overtones, either they're too close or the preamp is too hot.

XS Cymbals ring. It's their nature. The snare sounds like it needs tuning. If the ring happens no matter where you tune it, tighten it up and then take the tension completely out of one lug. That'll kill the ring. Tighten the bottom head, too.

I've tried having them close and far, i've tried many preamp levels. It just sounds like a really weak recording. I can get my guitars, voice and bass to sound half way decent but this drumming thing is a completely new thing. Sure as hell pisses me off that this kid is so lazy. He has had this recording stuff for 3 months and in this time, he didn't spend more that 10 minutes trying to record something. What a waste. Perhaps the drum wasn't tuned properly, and I wouldn't put it paste this kid to do something wrong or not do it at all. Thanks for all the responses guys. I wish I could expirement by myself and get a good sound but unfortunately I can't

 

[Bdrum]

I dont know jack but.....

I've tried having them close and far, i've tried many preamp levels. It just sounds like a really weak recording. I can get my guitars, voice and bass to sound half way decent but this drumming thing is a completely new thing. Sure as hell pisses me off that this kid is so lazy. He has had this recording stuff for 3 months and in this time, he didn't spend more that 10 minutes trying to record something. What a waste. Perhaps the drum wasn't tuned properly, and I wouldn't put it paste this kid to do something wrong or not do it at all. Thanks for all the responses guys. I wish I could expirement by myself and get a good sound but unfortunately I can't

Are the pre's very good ?
I dont know but it may be a factor.

 

[patlang12]

you should also take into account what the drums will sound like in a full mix. use the tips above, and if you're still driving yourself crazy, add in some quick little guitar parts, you will most likely hear that annoying crash and those snare overtones vanish.

Yeah, I recorded some drums and they didn't sound that great by themselves, but in the mix they sounded fine.

 

[strat0tele]

Are the pre's very good ?
I dont know but it may be a factor.

Don't know how behirnger sounds but i'm using an audiobuddy at home and I get decent sound. How much better would it be compared to a behinger

 

[Commander]

As a drummer myself the very mention of removing the front kick head and stuffing it with blankets, putting foam on the cymbals and duct tape on the heads makes me cringe! I would physically assault any engineer that tried anything like that! If the kit is tuned properly you should in theory be able to get a good sound with just one mic in the room and some well chosen compression. It's no good blaming the kit since you said the kit sounded good in the room. It's your job to capture that sound I'm afraid.

Of course it all depends on the sound you are going for. If you want the drums to sound natural then that's one thing, but if you are going for that heavily processed Slipknot sound then I would forget it since most of those sounds are triggered anyway. Getting a good drum sound is an art and takes many years to get right. You're going to need more than just one go at it!

 

[Bdrum]

Don't know how behirnger sounds but i'm using an audiobuddy at home and I get decent sound. How much better would it be compared to a behinger

I'm not sure.I have a yamaha mx400 into three delta 44's.
The pre's in the Yamaha aren't bad but not pro.either.
Try posting in the souncards forum if you haven't already.