Toontrack EZmix 2

  • Thread starter Thread starter Murdersgalore
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This with 'auto mastering' and life just got easy as pie! Mmmmm, pie....
 
Doesn't seem so bad to me... Looks like it's kind of a bunch of plugs and FX chains presets ready to go. One would still need to know how to use them all - it's not *hopefully* an algorithm that'll just look at your sounds and auto-mix your tune for you. It also seems like part of it's intention is to free one from the need to use mics on their instruments, what with the amp sims and stuff. This, with AD, EZD or DFH and you've got basically no need for anything but a vocal mic.

But in all seriousness, do you sometimes feel like a bit of a Luddite? I'm still a newb in terms of experience (I've only been doing this for a couple of years now) but I mean, with all this new technology coming out it's easy to rail against it in favour of the old ways but maybe they're not all so bad. Jimmy69, did you end up trying out that AAMS thing?

Myself, I really enjoy the details of it all: Getting to know how a compressor actually changes a sound, playing subtle tricks with an EQ to make things sound closer or farther away, learning the tiny differences a microphone will impart of different source material - but I can understand how this might not be everybody's bag. Some folks just want to throw something together and have it sound like a finished product in the shortest amount of time possible. I might not agree with that stance but I do get it.
 
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Yeah, and it didn't sound to bad actually. I'll stick to my plugs, and send to a ME when I am serious about getting it right. A second set of trained ears is priceless IMO.
 
I'm a total luddite and I don't care. And I love the term "luddite" and how it's found a solid home on internet forums. No one used that word before internet banter became all the rage. Now everyone's a luddite to someone else. It's awesome.

Anyway, my luddite self thinks stuff like this is exactly what we don't need. Anything that helps talentless shmoes record more bad music is not a good thing.

Why learn how things work, why you might need them, and why you should use them? Just pull up a bunch of preset, pre-determined plugs and go!
 
Greg_L said:
Anything that helps talentless shmoes record more bad music is not a good thing.

Why learn how things work, why you might need them, and why you should use them? Just pull up a bunch of preset, pre-determined plugs and go!
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I dig it but what if you're not a talentless shmoe? What if you're just not a talented engineer or can't afford one? People have their talents and it's super difficult (read: damn near impossible) to be a master-of-all-trades. I definitely see a market for things like this that goes beyond some dude that can't write a song but wants to impress his highschool crush with a catchy melody.

I guess I'm really just playing the Devil's Advocate here, since I really just want to learn the ins and outs. Let it be known that I'm not advocating for talentless shmoes around the world. I kinda just feel that maybe things shouldn't be so seemingly arcane and inaccessible all the time.
 
elbandito said:
I dig it but what if you're not a talentless shmoe? What if you're just not a talented engineer or can't afford one? People have their talents and it's super difficult (read: damn near impossible) to be a master-of-all-trades. I definitely see a market for things like this that goes beyond some dude that can't write a song but wants to impress his highschool crush with a catchy melody.

I guess I'm really just playing the Devil's Advocate here, since I really just want to learn the ins and outs. Let it be known that I'm not advocating for talentless shmoes around the world. I kinda just feel that maybe things shouldn't be so seemingly arcane and inaccessible all the time.
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Fair point, but it seems like things like this are geard specifically for talentless shmoes. You don't have to be Phil Spector to not need a bundle of plug-ins picked out for you. If you have functioning ears, half a brain, and working fingers, you can mix a song. There's generally two schools of thought with things like this: one thinks that anything that helps to facilitate the creation of music is a good thing. There's some merit to that, but I don't buy it. I think there's already too much really bad stuff out there. The other school of thought shuns stuff like this because it's kind of half-assed and lazy and promotes mediocrity. I like digital recording and plug-ins and stuff just like everyone else. I don't want anything just handed to me though.
 
What they need is a PDF version of it, where instead of just running your stuff through a chain, it tells you how to build the chain for your specific DAW. It's not like the specific plugins they're using here are going to be spectacular or unique; it's just pre-built sfx chains.
With a tutorial that says "ok for protools, you can get decent pop vocals by applying X eq, Y compression, and Z reverb with these settings", then the schmoes might at least learn something.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
What they need is a PDF version of it, where instead of just running your stuff through a chain, it tells you how to build the chain for your specific DAW. It's not like the specific plugins they're using here are going to be spectacular or unique; it's just pre-built sfx chains.
With a tutorial that says "ok for protools, you can get decent pop vocals by applying X eq, Y compression, and Z reverb with these settings", then the schmoes might at least learn something.
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That's a good idea.
 
Just another FX...cant see the difference between that and say a compressor with presets or a reverb with hall, room, tbh

Would wonder how flexible it would be to make it worth the buy in the long run
 
It's going more and more in this direction for the home/project studio guys...and I think the majority of people who will opt to use this stuff don't really care that they have little clue about what is really happening, how the stuff is working, or why it's working.....they're just going to be focused on the the end result so they can sound like and think they are pros.
Waves has similar stuff with their "One Knob" offerings. Just chose the knob you need and spin it until it sounds good to you...and you're done.

This is for the sea of "producas" out there, the guys who think making music is simply about making choices that someone else pre-created for them, and then assembling them into a finished product.
That is as assembly line/cookie-cutter as it can and will get, and the masses want this and will use it, and that will be the new "competition" at the YouTube/MeSpace level....who's choice of presets, samples and one-knob mixes sound better.
The number of people who can't play a damn thing to save their lives or who have any idea about actual audio engineering and producing is growing at an alarming rate...and I don't see it slowing down, only expanding.
 
Greg - a touch of irony - there is a big banner ad right above where I'm typing for 'oneknob louder', free from Waves, if you are willing to supply an email address. Anyway - I don't think anyone purposely sets out to suck, it just kind of happens along the way. In my rough estimate, 90% of the stuff I find that I think sounds sucky, including most of my own missteps, has had 'tools' applied/mis-applied. Stuff stuck on the mains - multi band compression, eq, verbs, regular compressors, limiters - you name it. For me, a great start to a better mix is to just tear all that shit off and don't touch it until you know how, when and why to use it. Learn this stuff by listening what it does to the sound, experimentation, and some basic reading.
 
chuckduffy said:
I don't think anyone purposely sets out to suck, it just kind of happens along the way.
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Been there... :)
Just tossed out an entire song because "the suck" just kind of happened along the way...though not from overuse of presets/plugs....
...mostly just the loss of vision and WTF was I thinking when I laid down some of the tracks...??? :D

You are right though, most of the people who will overuse and abuse the "one-knob" kind of stuff will usually fall into traps and get into trouble...and then not have a clue about how to get out of it.
The "one-knob" tools are not necessarily the problem, and sometimes can be useful in a pinch. Guys who actually record and edit and mix their stuff with some understanding and knowledge will not have a problem using a "one-knob" tool occasionally. It's the ones who are relying entirely on the presets to make it all happen for them who will use and abuse these tools....but I think most times that comes out in the wash, and it's not too hard to spot those guys.
 
This could be seen as a contradiction, but I'd bet that oneknob sounds just fine for goosing the main levels a bit to make mp3s for the net, provided the mix is decent. Those of us who have been around the block a few times aren't out looking for 'mastering' to get us a 'record deal' lol
 
I love it! I use it all the time, it's actually what helped me to start mixing.
 
Yeah who gives a flying.....some people dont want to learn how to be mix engineers...just like midi files or loops, not everyone wants to be a drummer or a bassist or whatever...if folks dont like it dont use it...there will always be shit music about, hell im sure we all contribute :)
 
miroslav said:
people who will opt to use this stuff don't really care that they have little clue about what is really happening, how the stuff is working, or why it's working.....they're just going to be focused on the the end result so they can sound like and think they are pros.
Waves has similar stuff with their "One Knob" offerings. Just chose the knob you need and spin it until it sounds good to you...and you're done.
Click to expand...

Ah. That's the problem though. If you don't know why it sounds good, and you never take the effort to learn, it's never actually going to sound good. The less interested you are in the actual "how" of making it sound good, the less likely you are to be able to hear when it doesn't.

As a counterpoint to myself, the sort of person who uses presets like this is at least showing enough curiosity and self-awareness to know that something they're doing sounds sub-optimal, and they're taking corrective steps. Unless, of course, they're just using the preset because a friend told them they'll sound professional, and they can't hear the difference.

Conclusion, no tools are inherently evil, and in the right hands, even crappy tools can do amazing things. Unfortunately, the target demographic for EZ mix is probably mostly the wrong hands.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Ah. That's the problem though. If you don't know why it sounds good, and you never take the effort to learn, it's never actually going to sound good. The less interested you are in the actual "how" of making it sound good, the less likely you are to be able to hear when it doesn't.
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You won't get an argument out of me on that...but there are those folks who just like to drive the car, and they have little understanding about the workings of the car, and many don't even realize you need to service it every so often and check the vital stuff regularly. ;)

I do get the "I'm a musician and I just want to play, I don't want to be an engineer" thing....and there are studio days when I really do wish I could just take that approach instead of spending half the afternoon doing some "engineering" stuff. headwall.webp
That said....if you don't want to be an engineer on any level, and you just want to play, then maybe you should leave the engineering stuff to others.
Yeah, digital technology has certainly dumbed it down (WAY down) for a lot of folks, and they can whip up a production with just a bunch of mouse clicks and little else (often very little actual "musicianship" and playing, never mind actual engineering)...but that's the reality of where we are today, and I don't see it going back, if anything, it will be dumbed down even further to the most simplified "one-button" productions, and lots of "musicians", "engineers" and "producers" will use it and feel really good about their creative and technical skill-sets. :)

Now I do think there are ways that honest musicians, engineers, producers can make valid use of most any tool, so I'm not saying having that stuff is bad. It's all up to the individual to decide how they wish to use it and if they want to learn anything about what they are doing...or just opt for one-button instant gratification.

And to bring it around full circle....
I happened to notice that Waves has a HUGE sale going on, so I checked out what they have and picked up just a couple of plug-ins (L2 Ultramaximizer $79, and the H-EQ for $69). That's the best price I've ever seen on the L2, and I really wanted that plug for mastering use, but hated their dongle i-Lock system...which now they've gotten rid of and just use serial numbers for activation.
While checking out all the Waves stuff on sale....I happened to spot (and you are probably seeing it also at the footer ad on these HR pages) that they have the Tony Maserati Signature Series bundle for only $99 (regular $500). There are 5-6 plugs you get with the bundle. It's not my kind of stuff, as it tends to follow the "one-button/black-box" approach....basically, each plug is supposed to mimic a hardware signal chain that Maserati likes to use, but for the plugs they've removed most of the options that he would have on his hardware signal chain, and Waves just gives you the final setup for each plug with minimal options, so you don't need to be overwhelmed with the whole signal chain, but rather you get just the final process/effect.
I didn't buy the Maserati bundle, but it immediately reminded me of this thread and this discussion...so I think for the guys who want an easier "one-button" approach for some tasks....shit, $99 for a $500 bundle is a GREAT buy, and I'm sure there's some decent stuff there, as Maserati ain't no engineering/producer hack, and he does great work, though not sure how well Waves captured his sig sounds....but it might be worth a buy for some folks here.
 
It sounds like an amazing plugin for noobs... but in reality it's not.

Trying running crappy tracks through it, it sucks. Try getting it to work on everything you do, you can't.

There is a reason the demo videos of this thing are good, and it's because the source material is good.

There are situations were it sounds cool though. I never upgraded from version 1, I don't use it enough. I find a plug like izotope's (even though I don't own it or need it) Alloy way more useful as an almost all in one solution.
 
Guitargodgt said:
It sounds like an amazing plugin for noobs... but in reality it's not.

Trying running crappy tracks through it, it sucks. Try getting it to work on everything you do, you can't.

There is a reason the demo videos of this thing are good, and it's because the source material is good.

There are situations were it sounds cool though. I never upgraded from version 1, I don't use it enough. I find a plug like izotope's (even though I don't own it or need it) Alloy way more useful as an almost all in one solution.
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I will +1 this, and add a bit more; I agree that no plugin can make 'crap' sound good. Without a good source tone to begin with, there is only the degree of 'fixing' or 'making' it work. Hell, all eq, compression, tuning, whatever, is some form of 'fixing'. Any one plugin is not the right one for everything. If you have a perfectly performed track, by the best performer, using one of these 'preset' vst's, is just using presets for something that may-or may not work for you. You are now just seeking one persons take on what he would do, from an unknown, and abstract perspective. Not yours....

Would you not at this point, already know what you need to do with the track, with your own tools? Because you have already spent the time learning how to get the signal right to begin with?

It is nice to see another persons perspective on how they would treat 'one' particular source, but pay for their take on a source you can never recreate?

Result: Marketing for sales. Mostly for those looking for instant magic (noobs). Nothing more. BS IMO.

I could be wrong, but I really don't think so.
 
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