Too Much Bass in Mixes

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Nate74

Nate74

HR4FREBR
So I've turned to some trusted HR'ers but am looking for some more input. My mixes seem to be translating fairly bass heavy when tested on other systems (stereo, car, wife's office cd player, etc.)

To confirm that I'm not getting enough bass in my studio and thus over-compensating in my mixes, I listened to several CDs I know well on my monitors and yes, they sound weak on bass.

My Setup:

Room & Treatment - 10'x14' carpeted room, 50 sqft of sound tiles on the wall (1" foam type). A computer desk opposite my mixing station and one 4' tall bookshelf. A couple amps and usually a guitar or two hanging on the wall or on a stand.

Monitoring Systems - YSM1's powered by a Stewart World 250 poweramp. Monitors are on the top shelf of my console desk, four feet apart and about 3.5ft from my mixing location. Monitors are on 2" round foam pieces, and sit about 18" from the wall behind them. That wall has a 2'x5' window with plantation shudders over it (almost always closed). That wall also has about 10 sqft of the sound tiles. The wall opposite the speakers (approx 12.5' away) has a door and about 15 sqft of the sound tiles.

So that's it.

Where do I start? Larger monitors, variations on my room treatment, something I'm totally missing?
 
I'd probably move them a little closer to the wall or add a subwoofer.
 
Hate to break it to you, but you probably need some bass absorption. If that doesn't help, you either need to work more on learning the bass output of your current monitors, add a sub to your current monitors, or buy different speakers.
 
Bass traps, bass traps, bass traps. Then better monitors and/or add a sub. However, you must fix your room before adding the sub. 50 sf of 1" acoustic tile is not nearly enough.
 
Reggie said:
Hate to break it to you, but you probably need some bass absorption. If that doesn't help, you either need to work more on learning the bass output of your current monitors, add a sub to your current monitors, or buy different speakers.
Click to expand...

I obviously don't understand something here. Wouldn't adding bass absorption make my problem worse, since I seem to be boosting the bass in my mixes to compensate for too little bass response?

If bass absorption does as the name implies... :confused:

Scrubs, do I need more of the 1" thick tile or traps in the corners, both, or...?
 
Nate74 said:
I obviously don't understand something here. Wouldn't adding bass absorption make my problem worse, since I seem to be boosting the bass in my mixes to compensate for too little bass response?

If bass absorption does as the name implies... :confused:
Click to expand...

No. What's happening now is, you have huge peaks and valleys in the bass response in your room. It's very difficult to mix bass when you can't hear it. Chances are, you have a big node right where you're sitting. Try moving your head around while mixing. Does the bass response change? If so, you need more room treatment.
 
Well here is the thing. Lets say our bass is bouncing all over the place..... you will hear too much bass, and thus your mixes will be weak on the bass. However, what is more likely is that your bass is bouncing around, and cancelling itself out..... so you get a phasing effect, and you don't hear all the low end that is actually in your mix. Get my point?


Simon
 
Crap. Two Dave Matthews Songs, and a remastered Stevie Ray song and yup. Depending on where I sit/stand the overall sound is very different. Worse sounding spot is right where I sit... I'm hoping there's a geometric reason for that and it's not just my bad luck.

The 50sqft of tiles that are up thus far were all glued to light weight particle board and then one screw holds up one 2'x2' section. I have quite a bit (probably another 150 sqft or so) of the tiles left and can buy more board if need, or...

I had one person suggest something like this in the corners:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Soundproofing-F...oryZ3278QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Is there a way to calculate bass frequency in a room with a volume of 1120 cubic feet? It seems unlikely that Thiele-Small perameters would work given the number of surfaces in the room...
 
One more question. I was under the impression that the idea behind near field monitors was to eliminate the room's effect on what you were hearing while seated at the point of the equilateral triangle position. Is that wrong too… maybe I should go back to my rugby career :rolleyes:
 
Nate74 said:
Is there a way to calculate bass frequency in a room with a volume of 1120 cubic feet? It seems unlikely that Thiele-Small perameters would work given the number of surfaces in the room...
Click to expand...


http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

scroll down almost to the bottom til you see 'SIDEBAR: ROOM MODES AND MODECALC'..

there is a free room mode calculator, that will give you a starting point of where cancellations might be occuring. All you do is enter your room dimensions.

But definately read the whole thing (like..everything on Ethan Winers site)..

Ethan is the man when it comes to tuning rooms..

Cheers,

-LIMiT
 
LIMiT said:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
Click to expand...

Wow! I just plowed through as much of this info as possible and realize I'm vastly out-manned and out-gunned when it comes to this topic. :(

The modecalc tool informed me that my room is not only less than half of the minimum suggested volume, but it's not even the right ratio!

So I guess I now have a little more understanding of what I need help figuring out.

Is there a site/tool that will help me figure out how much absorption I need (which will be a function of absorption coefficient x area) given the size and dimensions of my room?
 
LIMiT said:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
Click to expand...

Wow! I just plowed through as much of this info as possible and realize I'm vastly out-manned and out-gunned when it comes to this topic. :(

The modecalc tool informed me that my room is not only less than half of the minimum suggested volume, but it's not even the right ratio!

So I guess I now have a little more understanding of what I need help figuring out.

Is there a site/tool that will help me figure out how much absorption I need (which will be a function of absorption coefficient x area) given the size and dimensions of my room?
 
A much more cost-effective (& otherwise effective) method for treating corners & the room in general, compared to foam, is to build your own bass traps/broadband absorbers using fabric covered condensed fiberglass or mineral wool board. Place these panels across as many corners as you can and at all the first reflection points in your room (places where sound coming from your speakers would reflect off a wall/ceiling/floor directly to your ears). There's a video on Ethan Winer's RealTraps site where he shows how to place panels for maximum efficacy in a small control room. (http://realtraps.com/videos.htm - watch the "minitraps demonstration" vid). You can build similar panels to what he's using for about $20-30 each -- again, cheaper and more effective than any foam product out there.
 
Wow, the room in their demo is almost identical to mine. I'm thinking bass traps are where I'm heading. Of to home depot this weekend. I've found a couple threads that discuss buidling them. Any other sources for plans?
 
Reggie said:
If that doesn't help, you either need to work more on learning the bass output of your current monitors
Click to expand...

This is key ...............
 
Thanks to all who've contributed on this so far!

Not sure where I could find the fiberglass, but I'm sure some searching will turn up a source in LA.

Any thoughts on the foam type? Seem to range from about $40 for 8' worth of corners to up into the $300 range.

Of course with one real trap going for $199... building them or making due with foam might not be that bad for my 'budget' studio.
 
Nate74 said:
Thanks to all who've contributed on this so far!

Not sure where I could find the fiberglass, but I'm sure some searching will turn up a source in LA.

Any thoughts on the foam type? Seem to range from about $40 for 8' worth of corners to up into the $300 range.

Of course with one real trap going for $199... building them or making due with foam might not be that bad for my 'budget' studio.
Click to expand...

I think there has been some discussion that the "Foam By Mail" guys have totally lied about the absorption properties (& fire retardant properties) of at least some of their products. The very fact that they call it "Sound Proofing Foam" on their website implies that they don't really know what foam does and/or they're trying to swindle folks into thinking their products can actually "sound proof" anything. Somewhere on the net is a comparison of absorption coefficients of rigid fiberglass, mineral wool, auralex, LENRD/MegaLENRD corner traps, etc. I can't locate it right now but, IIRC, the Mega Lenrd did ok, but they are really expensive (& bulky) for what you get. Regular 1-3" auralex foam has very poor bass absorption.

There are a number of companies that make pre-made acoustic panels similar to realtraps, if you don't want to go the DIY route. GIK Acoustics & Modular Acoustics are a couple of others to check out.
 
Well crap... I looked through my paypal records and I see that the 1"x12"x12" foam I have up now (the 50sqft) was purchased through foam by mail. So I'm guess that besides looking pretty cool in the geometric paterns it's in, it's not doing a thing for my sound issues. What's worse is I have another 60sqft of the stuff...

I'm guessing I could take that stuff down to make room for real bass traps.

I looked at GIK. Looks like about $129 a pop for what I'd want. The Modular Acoustic Modbag line seems like what I'd want and their's run about $60. Either way, the DIY approach is what I'm going to go with.

So uh... anybody want 60sqft of packing foam?
 
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