Too many DAW choises! Linux an option? Or a mac? Or...

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Halion

Halion

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Lately I've been looking into alot of different sequencers and recording programs. But before I go on, let me explain at which point on the ladder I am:
I started working with software audio about 3 years ago. My first touch with this magic was with Hammerhead Rythm Station, a stand alone drummachine that had 8 drumpads and no midi. It owned, for what I was used to.

Then I wanted more. There came Fruity Loops. This allowed me to do more with some drum samples I found on the net, and at the same time let me mess with some synths and even some EQ.

Then I decided it was time to for one of the big guys: Cubase VST 32.
With this I made my first audio recordings.

Quickly after, Cubase SX 1. This is the first program I actually learned. I am now using Cubase 2.2 and am pretty ok with it. I can do pretty much all I need and then some. However, it is far from ideal.

And now I come to the point of this topic: To discuss all the options there are for musical creation/capture on a computer. I am now a Music Production student and at my school we use Cubase SX3, aswell as Logic 7 and Pro Tools with digi001 and digi002 interfaces.

A reason for me to look further than Cubase was the need to be able to handle all the main software sequencers (Logic and Pro Tools). Another reason was that I am getting more and more sick of Windows, and how it is forcing me to format my HD every so often. On the other hand, I know nothing of macs and their OS X, not to mention knowing zip of Logic or Pro Tools. Ofcourse, all can be learned. I'm not looking forward to buying digi gear though, since I already have some PC gear.

So, I looked into other PC options, like Mackie's Traktion, N-Track and others. All were ok, none were great. Then I came across Linux and it's audio options. It seemed like a pretty good, if not great solution to my problem. Big advantages beeing no cost whatsoever (pretty much all linux audio software is freeware), open source (so basicly anyone can make stuff [better]), and the ability to route programs to eachother easilly (kinda like ReWire). I've tried Agnula DeMuDi, which is something like an operating system that cames with all kinds of audio apps. However, it was way to unuserfriendly for me. I am now going to try another Linux distrobution.

As for the audoi software that is made for Linux, the big boys are Rosegarden and Ardour. I would say both are about 80% of what Cubase is when it comes to what I use of Cubase. I think Cubase has way to many functions that I don't use, so that should not be too much of a problem. There are also alot of ok/good/great DSP plugins for Linux and VST support increasing fast. So that seems like a pretty good option to me, looking also at the stability of Linux.

However, I am not fully sure if I should switch to Linux. I know Cubase, and can work fairly fast with it, but suffice it to say, I am not in the possision to buy bucketloads of new software just because they "the shit", and Windows is crashing on me more and more. An MBox might be an option, and Traktion might be aswell, but I'm not sure...

What do you guys thinks? Are there any future thoughts on this?
 
as far as linux is concerned, i have given it some thought as well. i decided to stay with windows for the R&D and support. nothing beats the drive of the dollar in terms of advancing. What i mean by that is, so many more people use the mainstream stuff that getting help is much easier and getting the specific product you need is more likely. That said i would stick with windows or mac.

its unfortunate that you are having trouble with the windows OS. I find that as long as you keep your audio OS clean, it is very solid. i only have one computer so i use a dual-boot setup. one windows XP is my manin OS, i have internet, email etc ectc. the other is XP os is just for audio, i have sonar, reason and cool edit on it.

cubase is a very reputable piece of software so you probably won't find much better. if you can use it well, you are already at an advantage. setting up a dual boot only requires an evening or so of yoru time and is really simple.
 
I currently have an XP / Linux dual boot, I never though of an XP / XP dual boot, that might be a very smart thing! This computer is also used by others so it might indeed indeed be a very smart thing indeed :) Thanks for the tip!
 
no prob. yeah i was kicking myself when i found out just how easy it was to set up a dual boot with two XP/XP. technically i don't think microsoft wants people to install a copy of XP more than once but i really don't see what it is hurting if you are only person who uses it and it is on the same computer. The only drawback i have run into is that for maintenance, you have to do updates twices. With my audio OS, i disabled lots of XP stuff including my network drivers. I also stopped updating the OS after service pack 1. Everything is running smooth
 
I am 99.9999% Linux user. I occasionally boot into Windows to play games. All of my audio stuff is done in Linux.

Usability...in my opinion Linux is MORE user friendly, but you have to learn it. It is of course different than Windows and so it seems at first to be a major pain. Eventually, as you get used to it, you find you spend LESS time fighting your system and actually getting work done. That is my experience anyway. Whenever I have to use Windows to do actual work it always gives me a headache because it just plain misbehaves so badly...even when working 100%.

Seing pictures of other audio apps I think Ardour took most of its interface design from industry standard applications. Theoretically it shouldn't be that much of a learning curve to use that app...but I don't know.

There is the argument that money drives the market, however, the most interesting stuff happens in the academic arena. Real innovation happens when there isn't a bunch of execs saying, "We don't think that will sell, do it this way." The linux audio system is improving every day, very quickly. Ardour itself is VERY impressive. I always get a laugh at how many times the big money makers get their ideas from open source projects.

Now, you will want to alter your system a touch unless you get one of the audio distributions. You want 2.6.12r4 or better because it has the RT-Limits patch included already so the kernel will be able to do low-latency processing. You will need to patch PAM for now...I don't know that it has been modified to make use of the RT-Limits API. There are directions here: http://www.steamballoon.com/wiki/Rlimits

I also strongly suggest joining the linux-audio users email list: http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/subscribe.php

So in short, yes there is a learning curve. In my opinion it is more than worth it. Some pro studios have made the switch, no I can't name them I read in articles, so it is obviously quite ready for home use. If you need help, I'm around for what that is worth.
 
Linux does apeal to me very much, and I'll belief that once you get everything it will be much easier, but I ran into so many problems at my first Linux boot that it just scared. There was no sound, I couldn't set the screen resolution beyond 800x600 (I think it didn't understand my video card), there was no internet connection and only a ton of apps only named by abriviations (sp?). I took a quick peek at Ardour and it looked good though. Any idea's on how I could get stuff working quickly? I can't seem to find a way to tell Linux (debian) what my internal gear is, nor can I find a way to tell it I have a cable modem and do not want to "dial up". I seemed like an awefull lot of stuff it should be getting right from the start.
 
Working 90% linux these days. Linux works well, but don't think to get PT or Logic running on it. So if that is one of the reasons for changing, take that into account.

To get things working quickly (audio stuff I guess) go to one of the audio centered distros like CCRMA and Agnula. Don't worry about not getting Debian mastered, neither did I. There are other distros around that will fit your needs. That's one of the best things of linux. Something to check before you take that route: has the hardware you have/want drivers?
 
Halion said:
Linux does apeal to me very much, and I'll belief that once you get everything it will be much easier, but I ran into so many problems at my first Linux boot that it just scared. There was no sound, I couldn't set the screen resolution beyond 800x600 (I think it didn't understand my video card), there was no internet connection and only a ton of apps only named by abriviations (sp?). I took a quick peek at Ardour and it looked good though. Any idea's on how I could get stuff working quickly? I can't seem to find a way to tell Linux (debian) what my internal gear is, nor can I find a way to tell it I have a cable modem and do not want to "dial up". I seemed like an awefull lot of stuff it should be getting right from the start.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there is sometimes a big first step in learning linux. It requires a bit more knowledge of computing in general and a bit more about what you have. Windows will almost install without you having to know anything. Linux is working on that, and Mandrake seems to have it better than the others, but eventually you run into something that requires you know about computers.

To find out what cards and such you have you can use the lspci command. lspci -v gives even more information...use shift-pgup to see what went off the screen. In your case you are looking for sound (multimedia), video, and ethernet controllers. After that you are better armed to deal with getting those things to work and getting help.

Look for your soundcard here: http://alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/ (you are looking for chipset info, not brand or model name)

Most decent soundcards work, some inboard cards won't. The EMU cards are iffy I believe and not listed last I checked. Join the audio list and converse if you have one of those. RME and M-Audio seem to be the best pro/semi-pro cards as far as Linux support. I have neither, I have an SB Live! 5.1 and it works but of course is not even semi-pro quality.

Run xf86config as root for your video...it will go through a process in which you can scan through a list for your card. Sometimes your exact card is not listed and you go for best close bet. Must video cards work these days; not so in the past.

For the cable, hopefully you have a modem that will let you connect through ethernet. Then it is really easy. I have yet to meet a network card not supported in Linux. Just load the module (based on lspci output and best guess) and run dhcpcd if the modem does dhcp or hand configure with ifconfig (you will need to know the network the modem expects you to be on)...most times dhcp is what you want.

Also, you may wish to try Mandrake. I saw someone install it that had LITTLE computer knowledge. I was really impressed and this was a few years ago...they probably have it even better. It is not an "Audio" distro, but once you are up and running learning to get audio stuff working is not that tough and it will be more pleasant because the system may be running nicer to begin with. I use Gentoo myself, but I know a lot about Linux...
 
I know what stuff I got, and I know it works with Linux, I just don't know where and how to set everything up ;)
 
This...
nroberts said:
Eventually, as you get used to it, you find you spend LESS time fighting your system and actually getting work done.
Click to expand...
Now, you will want to alter your system a touch unless you get one of the audio distributions. You want 2.6.12r4 or better because it has the RT-Limits patch included already so the kernel will be able to do low-latency processing. You will need to patch PAM for now...I don't know that it has been modified to make use of the RT-Limits API. There are directions here: http://www.steamballoon.com/wiki/Rlimits
Click to expand...
...and this...
Seing pictures of other audio apps I think Ardour took most of its interface design from industry standard applications.
Click to expand...
I always get a laugh at how many times the big money makers get their ideas from open source projects.
Click to expand...
...are pretty funny.
 
After some reading....and a lot of it, I'm going to use Red Hat 9 and download CCRMA's APT's. They have a low latency kernel and a low latency patch. Along with tons of all sorts of audio goodies. Among their package collections; Rosegarden, Lilypond, Ardour, And Audicity. Plus it's Stanford.

I just picked up a dual PentiumII 400mhz processor.....hmmm. I'm hoping I can learn how to multitask the processors. Does anyone here use dual processors??

Just Be Aware of all the different types of Linux distributions out there...go with a big Linux distro.....Like Red Hat or Fervent. Best of luck to you Halion!
 
nroberts said:
How so?890
Click to expand...
Um..."less time fighting the system", then an overview on patching your system. Then "corporate software copies open source", and "ardour copies corporate software". This wasn't completely obvious?
 
Um..."less time fighting the system", then an overview on patching your system. Then "corporate software copies open source", and "ardour copies corporate software". This wasn't completely obvious?
Click to expand...

There is a large difference between just compiling a new kernel because you need some special functionality 80% of the other users don't need and patching your system weekly to keep it running. Likewise there is a difference between using a known interface layout and way of working while programming the whole lot and the act of copying a program. But that is obviously lost on some people, I agree.

I just picked up a dual PentiumII 400mhz processor.....hmmm. I'm hoping I can learn how to multitask the processors. Does anyone here use dual processors??
Click to expand...

You have nothing to learn for that, the system knows how to do that. Only action required from you is that you install a kernel with the SMP functionality. CCRMA has a SMP kernel available, just make sure you use it. And even if you forget it, you can always later compile a new one with it added.

Just started building my third dual cpu pc. Be warned, they are addictive. Also the third Gentoo system in the house.
 
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