To dither or not to dither, that is the question

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mjbphotos

mjbphotos

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I record in 24 bit, but render to 16 bit so I can burn a CD and listen to my mix on various systems (and adjust as needed). I never render to 24 bit, add a dither plugin on that stereo mix and then render to 16 bit.
If I did, would I hear something different?
What does dithering actually do? Is is consistently used when mastering, no matter the recording/DAW?
 
To make it simple and plan Im sure others will go more in detail with you. Dither adds noise, a broadband noise to the digital signal. Not a loud noise very small noise that is added when audio conversion occurs. Wether up or down in resolution conversion there are quantization errors or (digital errors) applied to the signal upon conversion. These digital errors or in actuality distortion, digital distortion the dither adds noise to smooth these small amounts of distortion over "per say". The actual noise level of the dither is higher in volume units or essentially "louder" than the amounts of digital distortion (a clean noise to drawn out the sound of the bad noises).

Put in perspective when your at home and your watchin TV and your kids, are loud and making a bunch of ruckus in the "background" while your trying to watch TV, what do you do? You turn "UP" the TV, you my friend are dithering. You are raising the volume units of your TV to drawn out all the bad noise, or noise infractions that are distraction from the main signal. (yes the sound of children's racket is bad and distracting lol) think of your kids as distortion and they are distraction the sound from TV, the TV is the main signal for the TV to be heard and heard clearly the TV signal must drown out the children at play so therefore the TV is used as a dithering device. So when you convert audio you create small amounts of distortion (or children lol). That distortion has to be drowned out with a steady flow of an audio signal that is slightly higher in volume units to break up the noise and sound of the distortion, and that my friend is dithering.

Your question to dither or not dither, depends are you mastering from 24 bit reso to 16? If your are then in most cases that is where dithering is applied.
 
Dither adds a tiny amount of noise to help low level signals avoid quantization noise. There's a recent thread on bit depth around here that gives more info than you'd ever really need on the subject.

TBH - the signals affected by dither - usually the very ends of fades - are so quiet that nobody will ever hear them. Those that do will be deaf soon, because it means they're listening to the actual program material way the fuck too loud. But it is a "best practice" kind of thing.

Don't know what DAW you're using. Reaper has options in the render window to apply dither when you're downsampling at render time. I'd imagine that some of the "idiot proof" DAWs might just do it without asking. You may be dithering without even knowing.
 
ashcat_lt said:
I'd imagine that some of the "idiot proof" DAWs might just do it without asking. You may be dithering without even knowing.
Click to expand...

This is VERY true and you def dont want to be dithering twice. Pro Tools dithers on export of audio automatically really want to check your manuals.
 
I use Reaper, but I probably have the dither option turned off when I render. So, basically, I don't have to bother with it.
 
mjbphotos said:
I use Reaper, but I probably have the dither option turned off when I render. So, basically, I don't have to bother with it.
Click to expand...

Only time you "REALLY" have to deal with it is when your mastering and rendering down from 24bit to a 16 bit CD reso.
 
You should definitely dither and you should do it only once as the very last thing before truncating.
 
As long as you're sure that you are done with the file - won't be changing volume, eqing, compressing, fading, normalizing or anything else before burning to CD - then you should dither. It's free, it's painless, and it does technically improve the final product, even if hardly anybody will ever really notice. There's absolutely no good reason not to.

Now, if you'll be doing anything at all to the file after it's rendered (before burning or encoding to mp3), then you should just leave it in 24bit. Dither and bit-rate conversion should be the absolute last thing you do.
 
mjbphotos said:
If I did [dither], would I hear something different?
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Why don't you try it both ways and see if you can hear the difference? :D

My Dither Report explains more, and includes files you can download and audition. But to answer your question directly: Yes you should dither, but No you probably won't hear the difference.

--Ethan
 
To dither or not to dither: that is the question:

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.


:cool:
 
moresound said:
To dither or not to dither: that is the question:

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.


:cool:
Click to expand...

Man, that was really beautiful.
 
Henry, I think you got off the subject there! I tried to write music to that Shakespeare soliloquy a long time ago!

Getting back to dithering - just wait for the final mastering render seems the simple answer. When I render 24 bit to 16 bit to check my mixes there's no good reason to do that extra step.
 
mjbphotos said:
Henry, I think you got off the subject there!
Click to expand...

Give me your pardon, sir: I have done you wrong:
But pardon't, as you are a gentleman.
This presence knows, and you must needs have heard,
How I am punish'd with sore distraction.
What I have done.

Sir, in this audience,
Let my disclaiming from a purpos'd evil
Free me so far in your most generous thoughts
That I have shot my arrow o'er the house
And hurt my brother.
 
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