tips for mixing FOH?

[mixmkr]

Anybody have any general tips for mixing FOH (and monitors for that fact) for a 350 seat church with a decent PA?

Our praise team is doing just fine, no voluime problems, etc. Our weak link is the sound crew, and they realize it too.
Presently we just run ALL direct... a stereo synth, guitar (synth and a modeler) in stereo, bass and 5-6 vocal mics. That's it. Should be easy, right?? NO stage volume (except monitor leakage and drums) ... WELL.......!!As a side note, the drums seem to currently do ok as is,...not too loud, etc Putting a shield and 4+ more mics on them would complicate things at this point....so I have stayed away from that at this point...but definately want to in the near future. I have mic'd the drums, and the improvement in sound was very noticeable. But, like I said, they aren't ready for drums IN ADDITION yet.

Anyway, some general tips, reading info, whatever would be appreciated that I could pass along in an organized manner. Without going out and buying a 100 page book, some general methods to learn, and/or internet links would be nice to start.

Admittedly, the ears seem to be what lack the most, and the crew has widely varying ideas of what a mix should sound like. ..as in vocals waaaaaay up, or no guitar...or varying vocal balances, etc.
I have taken charge and have tried to describe what our mix should aim towards (like a CD, perhaps with vocals up a pinch..maybe?), but there seems to be a big struggle with just 10 faders and getting our two monitor mixes (one for instr and the other for the vocalists).
We need to start at step one, and progress from there.

I have thought of hiring a professional to help out for awhile (and to help train), and that might be the ticket, as I can't do much while I am up front playing guitar. As a note, ALL the sound crew are doing their best... Problem is it just is kinda subpar to put it politlely.
Seems like our band is giving the sound crew about the easiest situation we can, and it is NOT like we have 32 fadars to quickly adjust (which are available, btw). Can a "newbie" really be trained??
ALL IDEAS welcome.
thanks in advance!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Yes, a "newbie" can be trained, but the trainer has to know what they're doing; otherwise it's just the blind leading blind (or is it in this case the deaf leading the deaf? ). If you wanted to try something like that and you have the budget to try it, you might consider hiring an experienced FOH engineer (one experienced in church work especially would be best), with the undertanding from the outset with this gunslinger that his job is not only to get the engineering right, but also that he/she needs to train your locals while their at it. After only about two or three Sundays he hopefully should be able to hand over the reins.

Barring that, a far as general advice, I'd say a good place to start is with the stage monitors. Remember that the main purpose of the stage monitors are to assist the performers in getting the best out of their performances. They really should be mixed however the performers want or need them mixed, and not necessarily mixed for perfect CD-style balance. If the performers need more instruments so they can hear the song that they are singing to, give it to them. If, OTOH, they need more vocals because they need to hear themselves better, then give them that. Whatever is needed there. When you have the stage monitors set right, then you'll get the best and most consistant performances from the performers themselves; and onltthen will you have the final source material from which to build the proper PA mix.

Then when it comes time for the PA mix, try to have have everybody (who needs to) get together on the same page when it comes to listening to the music and letting the music itself dictate to an initial degree how it should be mixed. By that I mean don't think of it in general thumbrules like vocal should be slightly higher (thought that may be true) or the guitar needs to be this or that, but rather listen to the ensemble arrangenet and decide what needs to be heard how much to make the music sound the best and the most inspirational. In short, mix it in your head; get a mental goal of what the music should sound like and use that as a blueprint to mix by.

There will be disagreements between the various parties; there always are. An impartial agreement has to - or at least should - be made from the outset as to who has the actual responsibility as "musical director", and that this person will have the final say on what the sonic goals should be. This will save a lot of needless time, energy and dead ends when it somes to deciding on sonic goals and the attaining them. If it's someone other than the FOH engineer - e.g. the band leader - then it will be up to them to say, "OK we need more cowbells". It should be up to the FOH to decide HOW to do that (do we need to mic the cowbell better or do we just need to push the fader, etc.), but unless the FOH is also the musical director, they shouldn't have the final decision whether more cowbell is needed. Everybody can have input - FOH: "More cowbell, are you insane?" , but if the director replies, "Yes, I am insane, and yes I want more cowbell", then that should be the end of it.

In summary:
Start with monitors, guided by the performers' needs. When those are good, then do the PA under the direction of the musical director with the goal of attaining the mental mix as dictated by the needs of the music itself.

HTH,

G.

 

[mshilarious]

I just got back from a church gig--not a service, a Christmas concert. It was OK except for mostly empty churches being feedback generators but I survived.

On the other hand, the service before the concert . . . the children's choir was using SM81s (like 6 of them) as soloist mics, and SM58s as overheads The choir director had two 15" wedges on either side of him (despite the singers being RIGHT NEXT TO HIS PIANO) and he kept complaining they were singing too loud

So I have no advice other than to run in fear

 

[xstatic]

Hiring a professional is definately the best place to start. There are certain issues that you may not even be aware of that a pro could recognize almost instantly. The problem is that the pro would have to be there to spot those.

Personally, in smaller rooms like that where the mains are often heard, I bring a mix up in the mains before I do the monitors. Its amazing how much a monitor mix can change when there is some overlap from the mains. In the end though, if the engineer doesn't have good ears, the mix won't be good either

 

[Ford Van]

I once was the "house soundman" for a big Lutheran church. It was some of the best live sound pay I ever made! $35 an hour!!!

The music director was an ass though! The musicians were marginal and VERY hard to work with. The sound system deperately needed some additions, and the room was HORRIBLE, but there was going to be NO money spent on that crap!

It was one of the worst experiences I stayed in for 6 months doing live sound.

I wouldn't say "never again", but I would have a CONTRACT with the church saying that what I say about sound GOES, and that there HAS to be a "at my discretion" budget for sound system/room improvements.

Not sure how this helps the topic, but thought I should speak up.