Tinnitus

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kidkage

kidkage

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Man stabbed himself to death after concert left him with severe tinnitus - mirror.co.uk

Rough.

Never really thought about it. Hope I don't get. Or anyone else for that matter.

When I first started drumming a few years ago, after a few weeks of dealing with the ringing caused by the ride and hi hats I started wearing ear plugs which I'm sure without at this point my hearing would be weird.
Went shooting a few weeks ago. No one else wore ear plugs. I did though, out of fear of not wanting to be back where the drums had me.
Now I do wear headphones and listen to loud stuff whilst I drum along. The drums sound quieter, but the loud music in the headphones is still there. This article has me considering playing music through my monitors and drumming with earplugs in.

Im sure there's some unjust paranoia caused by the article, but can listening through headphones (while tracking or music in general), or sitting in front of monitors for hours while mixing do that to a person ?

Not being able to listen to music without a ringing sound seems terrifying as feces.
 
Well like you said KK Your listening through the phones LOUD music and that is not good.
In fact earbud monitors used for live stage work - at very loud volumes - are just as bad if not worst as loud floor or side wash monitors at full tilt.

And will someone answer that dang phone! I have days of ringing - not very fun.

There are other things to watch out for as well especially before tracking or mixing. While driving to a location, don't have the radio blasting and believe it or not keep the windows rolled up at faster speeds. Wind tunnel right next to your head!
 
arcadeko said:
I have it - it sucks. Use ear protection.
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Same here. From the stuff I did in my youth, I'm surprised I don't have it worse. Headphones at high levels is probably what did me in.
 
So basically if i'm listening through cans or monitors it's gonna happen?
 
The degree of damage that can result is determined by a mix of the absolute SPL and the duration of exposure. A brief very loud burst probably won't do long term damage; nor will hours on headphones at reasonable levels.

Alas, the definition of "reasonable" is pretty low. If you're using earbuds on a bus or train and crank up the MP3 player to drown out the background noise, that's probably too loud. For example, city traffic from inside a car or bus can hit 80-85dB(SPL). However, sustained listening (measured in hours) at 90dB(SPL) can result in hearing loss. For example, OSHA specify daily maximum exposure...you can be exposed to 90dB for up to 8 hours. At 95dB, the daily exposure falls to 4 hours. At 110dB (easily encountered at a rock concert) the daily maximum is 30 minutes.

Your hearing throws one more trick at you to make the risk of damage even worse: listening fatigue causes your ears to be de-sensitised over time and can persuade you to keep turning up the volume. Alas, you're only de-sensitised in terms of your perception of the sound, not the risk of damage.

I know it's not fashionable to say so but it really is worth being careful of the monitor levels you use when mixing. It also helps the mix to take lots of breaks and come back with fresh ears. I was shocked about ten years ago when we were playing around with tones generated on my DAW and we found that my son (then 18) and his friends had hearing rolling off at about 15kHz while I (at 50) could hear up to nearly 17kHz. The only difference we could find is that they came from the personal stereo generation.

So...look after your hearing even if it means being the boring twit saying "turn it down". When you get to my age, you'll be glad you did.
 
That report is a joke, though, right? Who ends an article about a suicide related to tinnitus with, "The hearing continues." ??? Seriously?

kidkage said:
So basically if i'm listening through cans or monitors it's gonna happen?
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Keep it at a reasonable volume and it won't. If your mixing environment is so noisy that you have to turn it up, make changes to the environment - not the volume.
When I was younger and even more foolish than I am now, I used to rehearse without hearing protection with a drummer in a very cramped room. That meant that one ear was always right next to the ride cymbal, which that drummer mysteriously played as if it were a crash. I don't have any ringing, but do have noticeable hearing loss in one ear. Tinnitus/hearing loss are not just annoying, and don't only inhibit your mixing/musical performance. They also make it challenging to participate in conversations, hear a waitress in a restaurant, filter out background noise, or hear the passenger in your vehicle.
Protect your hearing at all costs. Seriously.
 
unable to sleep for three months after seeing Them Crooked Vultures at the Brixton Academy, London.
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I saw quite a few gigs at the Brixton Academy back in the 80s. I remember seeing Dennis Brown. The gig was meant to start at 7, he didn't turn up till 11, only played 55 minutes and skipped across the stage shaking his locks. I was livid but the audience screamed and screamed every time he shook those locks ! These were the days before night buses and I ended up having to walk home 9 miles having been wasted on thai sticks. Me and my mate were going to get a taxi and do a runner but every cabbie we saw looked mean and we were in no condition to run anywhere.
I saw Gil Scott Heron there and the sound was awful. Electric piano, bass, drums. I was disappointed because I'd seen him the year before and the gig was superlative. Luckilly, my cousin lived in Brixton so I was able to crash there. I had a really draining cold. I always seemed to be stoned or ill at that place !
I saw this absolutely insane trumpeter called Arturo Sandoval there. One of my favourite gigs, this guy could blow forever, seemingly without taking a breath. It didn't matter that the acoustics were bad because he blew notes so high and loud. I had terrible hayfever that day but Sandoval blew it out ! That day I saw Eric Burdon and he was awful. He couldn't hit any notes. I spent the time of his gig wondering why he turned up.
I also saw the two worst gigs I ever saw there, the poet John Cooper Clarke and this utter waste of an hour I'll never get back, Ellie Matt. Maybe it was an off day but he and his band were terrible. I'm so grateful I don't have his stuff ringing in my ears !
But Brixton academy has had lousy acoustics since I first went there in '82. Really bad.
One of the guys that plays drums on my stuff {he's 20} has taken to wearing earplugs or closed phones because he has tinnitus. The way he hits the drums, I'm not surprized. Often, when we're recording in my kids' small room, the sound of those cymbals is all encompassing. I never have the drums in my cans. I never need to !
 
While tinnitus is pretty common, especially after extended exposure to loud sounds, though it can also just come with age and or some types of meds and sometimes it can be quite loud, and sometimes it can also go away on its own...

...I can't believe someone would commit suicide over it. You can mask most of that with other sounds (TV, fan noise, "rain machine", etc)...or I think there are even some forms of hearing aids that will help with tinnitus noises.
 
So performers in bands right, they wear in ear monitors.
Are the in ear monitors noise cancelling so you can hear only the mix and protect your ears or are they damage causing as well?
 
brother rat said:
Keep it at a reasonable volume and it won't. If your mixing environment is so noisy that you have to turn it up, make changes to the environment - not the volume.
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See -maybe you guys can help me clear this up- does volume matter when mixing?

I've for some reason convinced myself that mixing is supposed to be loud.
 
Rock stars do not care about their ears! They just play loud and fast forever! :D

Taking steps to save your hearing for the future is the best thing you could do. That being said, I have never worn earplugs, have played drums and bass in bands that played way over the necessary volume (both in rehearsals and live venues). I have lucked out and have no present damage to my hearing. Knocking on wood.....

Try to avoid unnecessary situations, and bottle rockets exploding in your ears. Been there.
 
Oops, forgot to answer the question. Hearing problem?

No, you mix loud to impress the client. You mix at a medium level (80db or so) to get things done. Yes, there is a need to push monitors at higher volume to see how it sounds, but lower volume will tell more about the clarity of a mix. In fact, I feel I learn more about a mix when the monitors barely make a sound. Tho a kick drum in the chest at high volume, is the best remedy for tired eyes. :)
 
In-ear monitors can actually cause as much damage, because just a little too much volume and your ears will suffer...especially since there is no "air", the plug completely seals the ear canal and pumps the sound DI into it.
 
jimmys69 said:
You mix at a medium level (80db or so) to get things done.
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Yup...I use 85dB SPL C-weighted....never past 90dB SPL.

If I want to listen loud, I get up from the mix position and step back, then turn up...but that's only occasionally.
 
So what exactly is the purpose of in ears? Im sure the venue monitor sound would be loud enough to where wearing ear plugs would protect your ears and still allow a person to hear the music just fine. Now I haven't played any "legit" gigs but jamming and rehearsals I could still hear through ear plugs. Muffled, yes. But I was hearing plenty loud music and my ears were fine after.

And now when rehearsal happened w/o earplugs 2/3 songs in the ringing was so bad that the music parts were indistinguishable
 
It's easier to get good monitor mixes with in-ears, and no feedback issues with floor monitors...I'm just saying that if they are pushed too loud, in-ears can damage your ears as much as anything else.
 
IEM's, are suited for live performance where a productions are elaborate enough to allow them. They are not necessarily needed, but if one has their shit together, meaning they already have their own mix prior to the FOH PA, they can secure their own monitor mix constantly. Live monitoring and recording enviro's are two completely different animals.
 
Right....I would never consider using in-ear for studio monitoring/mixing. You need some "air" between your monitors and your ears to hear all the nuances and the imaging.
You don't get the best stereo imaging with in-ear monitors, same as with headphones. Yeah, you get fully encompassed with them, but I think it's better to have that "air".
 
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