Those "STINGING" vocals!

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pipelineaudio

pipelineaudio

Well-known member
For the last couple of years, I've been trying to figure out this vocal trick. Actually for a longer time, but not as crazy in my quest as in the last little while. I got some ideas, but not 100 %. When I talk to those guys involved, I usually get hemming and hawing and no straight answers. Now I hang my head in shame and ineptitude.

The ones I am talking about are those smooth yet distorted, treble blasted, yet somehow not harsh, very retardedly slick and piercing, yet somehow still big and wide, vocals in certain parts of "

Belinda Carlisle- Heaven is a place on earth

The lines " eating up the night", " Marconi Plays the maba" and others in Jefforson Starship-We built this city on Rock n Roll

Chorus Vocals on Freida-Theres Somethin going on

Duran Duran- Wild Boys

Madonna - Your an angel

Pet Shop Boys-Its a Sin

Parts of Dead Or Alive- Lover Come Back To Me

Bananarama-Venus

ESPECIALLY Berlin- No more words

Metal Church- The Dark

Iron Maiden- Can I play With Madness

The chorus of The Meatmen-Turbo Rock

many others but thats a list enough

Youll notice many share the same engineers and producers, but they aint talkin'! In some cases it seems like the ENCODE side of a dolby unit was used for the treble distortion, but that doesnt explain the smoothness, especially in the pre multiband compressor days. Also considering that de-essers were all the rave at the time, this whole technique seems very odd
 
Don't have a clue on that, but to me it seems that at least some of the vocals are done with one or both of the following:

a) using an exciter (was VERY hip at that time)

b) using a technique like the 'exciting compressor' where an uncompressed and a compressed track are blended.

The verb settings also seem to make a lot of the sound... The voice is in a completely own environtment, if I recall them right (Duran)...

At least this keeps your post alive alittle longer...

aXel
 
I might have an idea. See if this is what your looking for.

Its a double mic configuration, usually a U47 upfront and a akg 414 a few feet back and about 2 feet above. The first mic has the treble parts that cause the harshness eq'd out, and the U89 has those added or boosted the old ying yang eq thang.
Since the second mic is farther back it picked up the overtones more smoothly than if it was mic'd closer. I have a book that describes this technique which was very common in the 80's. The Engineer and producer for Men at Work outlined this technique in a book he co-authored. Peter McIan is his name. http://musicbooksplus.com/books/ms113.htm Ive had this book since it first came out and bought the second edition a few years back because its got some good basic info. I have lot of books because my memory is crap and having books and notes available really help. I also keep note of my problems and the work arounds just in case. I hope this helps Pipeline, it sounds pretty similar. I actually tried it friday with a male vocalist. It didn't work for me...I had technical problems with a compressor. Doh! I get to try again in a few weeks though.

SoMm
 
Son of Mixerman said:
I might have an idea. See if this is what your looking for.

Its a double mic configuration, usually a U47 upfront and a akg 414 a few feet back and about 2 feet above. The first mic has the treble parts that cause the harshness eq'd out, and the U89 has those added or boosted the old ying yang eq thang.
Since the second mic is farther back it picked up the overtones more smoothly than if it was mic'd closer. I have a book that describes this technique which was very common in the 80's. The Engineer and producer for Men at Work outlined this technique in a book he co-authored. Peter McIan is his name. http://musicbooksplus.com/books/ms113.htm Ive had this book since it first came out and bought the second edition a few years back because its got some good basic info. I have lot of books because my memory is crap and having books and notes available really help. I also keep note of my problems and the work arounds just in case. I hope this helps Pipeline, it sounds pretty similar. I actually tried it friday with a male vocalist. It didn't work for me...I had technical problems with a compressor. Doh! I get to try again in a few weeks though.

SoMm
Click to expand...

Makes Sense,, but one question though,,, are they tracked to the same channel or two seperate channels?

Thanks

Malcolm
 
It seems to be what I thought in the first place, the Dolby A using encode only. My problem was I hadnt bypasses 2 resistors that I needed to bypass. trying it again today with pretty good results
 
alright! sucess! ( I think)

now if you listen to Martika's "Toy SOldiers" even as an mp3, it sounds like they stuck this stuff on the guitars, hi hats and all sorts of things. Im a little frightened by that, but this is like a painter getting a whole new type of brush and Im going kinda batty on trying different stuff out with it
 
malcolm123 said:
Makes Sense,, but one question though,,, are they tracked to the same channel or two seperate channels?

Thanks

Malcolm
Click to expand...
2 separate channels.

I think if we just watch this thread, Pipe will figure it out all on his own. ;) I have that effect on people. I just have to be in the room and voila, everyone else is a genius.

SoMm
 
Son of Mixerman said:
2 separate channels.

I think if we just watch this thread, Pipe will figure it out all on his own. ;) I have that effect on people. I just have to be in the room and voila, everyone else is a genius.

SoMm
Click to expand...

LOL
Hey sounds good to me,,, Ill be watching this thread.

Malcolm
 
Ok itll probably be about 2 weeks before I can hear anything above 4k accurately ( if at all ), but hell, I got pretty close! Now if I could just have some good singers in!

pass the tylenol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Sorry Pipe...Im all out. I spent most of friday night tracking vocals.. Karioke style. Guy had a great voice...but no experience with a real mic. Backed away during verses and pulled forward on the refrain and chorus. Tried to ride the fader, but he was too inconsistant, I tried sidechaining a compressor, the only free one left..the 3630. I must have stared at it like a football coach staring at the midget at the end of the players bench. Bad call on my part. Didn't matter though, he wan't to come back in a few weeks after he practices what I recommended. Its his money, and I don't want to waste it. Id rather have him comeback when he is ready. I hate ear fatigue, especially when coupled wiht an ear infection, which Im sporting right now. Hello... hey..is this mic on....I thought we were going to record..whats this for...hello! Is this glass bullet proof, Hey ,I have this buddy...

Pass the ear plugs please:cool:

SoMm
 
pipelineaudio said:
It seems to be what I thought in the first place, the Dolby A using encode only. My problem was I hadnt bypasses 2 resistors that I needed to bypass. trying it again today with pretty good results
Click to expand...

Keep tying. Those CATT 22 cards can be real tricky, especially if you yanked them out of a older encoder. Try tracking down some used Dolby 361 model encoders. Nothing like squashing the crap out of audio ala Mutt Lange.;)

SoMm
 
someone posted the following a while back (can't remember who) that seems germane to the topic. here it is again for those who missed it:

The Motown 1960's Exciting Compressor

With the Motown mix approach there were problems. If you wanted the lyrics to be heard you had to use a lot of compression on the vocal so that the the softer words could still be heard over the higher-level music. In addition you boosted the "presence range" (around 5 kHz) with an equalizer. The only problem with this is that it took the life & natural dynamics out of the vocal.

Lawrence Horn came up with a brilliant idea. He took the vocal and split the signal so that it when to 2 console channels. Before the vocal signal went to the second channel, it went through a compressor. Now he had two channels of the vocal - one compressed and one uncompressed.

On the uncompressed vocal he added very little with the equalizer and he added the reverb. On the compressed channel, he compressed the h**l out of it and added a ton of high-frequency equalization. What he would do is bring up the "natural" channel to full level to get the basic natural sound on the vocal. On the other compressed and equalized channel, he brought this
up just enough to add excitement and presence to the vocal sound.

The result was nothing less than amazing. In the mix the vocal sounded very natural and bright. None of the music ever "stepped on" the vocal and you could hear each and every syllable in the lyrics. The vocal never got lost.
 
Thanks littledog;) Could or would you accomplish the spit during tracking, so you have a safety to compress if need later?

Thanks,
SoMM
 
Son of Mixerman said:
Thanks littledog;) Could or would you accomplish the split during tracking, so you have a safety to compress if need later?

Thanks,
SoMM
Click to expand...

It's a mixing technique. No need to take up an extra tape track, since you can accomplish it with just one. Mult the vocal track from a half-normalled patchpoint to two console channels, and then perform the technique as described.

If you are worried about safety, make a duplicate reel or back up your data.
 
That's pretty much the same principle behind how most exciters work . . . it also goes by the nickname "New York Vocal Technique" or something to that effect.
 
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