this sucks

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antispatula

antispatula

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I FINALLY got my setup going. And I tried to record accoustic guitar through 2 Hamburgs into a DMP3 into a reel to reel recorder. And it sounded like crap. Then again, I really have no expirience with recording yet, seeing I have just gotten things running together. How much does expirience have to do with the quality. I know it aboviuosly does, but shouldn't I be able to get a DECENT sound out of my stuff? It sounds so gloomy and far off, even when the VU's on the mic pre and reel to reel are both hitting 0. Any advice and reassurance for my suckyness would be great thanks.

Oh, and please share your favorite stereo miking accoustic techneques and general info and stuff. Thanks..
 
try sticking one mic about 6 inches from the 12th fret and seeing how that sounds. you've got all that gear and have never tried recording before?
 
it was a little harder for me because of my reel to reel recorder. And my inexpirience. The inputs on my reel to reel recorder are XLR unbalanced, pin 3 hot. I had to figure out and then build my own wires to connect it. I'm 17, and all this is pretty new to me still.
 
how important is the room you're in. Can it make or break a recording? I've got some 703 but haven't used it. For guitar, should I place them all around methodically, or make it just dead?

Oh and I think I need to guitar strings....I've had them for like 6 months.
 
as everybody will soon pipe in to say.. all the expensive microphones and shiny preamps in the world won't make a bland sounding source sound amazing. you need to spend $5 on a new pack of strings and unless you want your record to sound like you're listening to somebody playing guitar in a bedroom you need to adjust your room. come on, you knew that!
 
Having a good sounding set of strings should be your first priority. I like the way my strings sound after they're 1-2 weeks old. Old strings sound lifeless and new ones are too bright and jangly for my taste. It sounds like you have the gear to get a nice sounding recording.

To answer your question, experience will be the biggest factor in getting a good acoustic guitar sound recorded. Then the guitar, strings, mics, and room in my opinion. Don't get discouraged man. You have alot of experimenting to do which can be fun or a pain in the ass depending on how you look at it. I'd start with one mic and try to get the best sound you can after quite a bit of experimenting with mic placement. Mic placement is probably the main thing you need experience with. The sound of your room should determine wether you deaden it or not. Experiment.
 
Welcome to my world. First, replace your strings. Then, start with just one mic. You'll probably use two later, but you need to walk before you can run. If you can't make one mic sound good, two won't help. Start with the mic about 8" from the 12th fret, pointed at the 12th fret, not the soundhole. Then record short sections, the same part, moving the mic up and down the neck. As the mic mooves toward the body of the guitar, it will get darker, boomier. As it moves away from the body, it will get brighter. Try this with the DMP-3's Hi/Lo switch in both positions. Adjust the input gain on the tape machine to around the middle and then the gain control on the DMP-3 until the needles on the tape machine get close to 0, but rarely go into the red. Then, play around with the two gain controls, the preamp and the tape machine. Try more preamp and less tape machine, and then the reverse, and see how the sound changes.
Also, get some RCA to XLR patch cables, and pull a Left and Right line off of a stereo source, such as your home stereo, into the reel to reel, and see what it sounds like, with a recording you know very well. That dials your room out of the equation and verifies that your reel to reel is working OK. There are a number of possible maintenance issues that could make a tape machine sound like that, and you need to rule them out. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the vu meters on the DMP-3, but you want to know what the ones on the tape machine are doing.
For right now, you are not trying to track a Grammy winner, so sit and play where you can reach all the controls and see all the indicators. Use headphones to give you some insight into what the tape machine is hearing, and mute the monitors to avoid feedback and phase distortion. Frankly, what you have described sounds a lot like phase distortion, with the signals from the two mics hitting the tape deck at two different times, out of phase just enough to cause trouble. But that is just one of many possible issues, and it may be you have more than one problem.
Can the room make or break a recording? Yes, absolutely. But it isn't the first place I would start for trouble shooting your problem. I admit, I would start at the tape machine, the source, mic placement, and gain staging. If I was sure there was no problem there, then I'd start working on the room. Getting good acoustic sound is the first great recording Holy Grail. Best of luck.-Richie
 
I just recorded a guy that makes a point of not changing the strings on his guitar. He just really likes the tone of older strings. Hates all the sparkle and shine of new strings. Have to agree with him, for what he was doing it sounded great. Very warm and natural. I just moved my head around him as he played until I found the sweet spots. Ended up with one mic a little ways off the 12th fret and another about 16" away from bottom/bridge end of the guitar on about a 45 degree. I think I used a cad m179 and an mxl 603.

I suppose spaces that are too reflective or too dead are equally a problem. Try a variety of rooms in your house to see how each sounds and then modify you studio space to meet your needs. I have some some plywood and some comforters that I move around or hang from the ceiling based on how things sound when I start recording. My space is small and cramped so I cant get a ton of real ambience, but it is also very irregularly shaped so it seems like I escape too much ugly resonance.
 
antispatula said:
it sounded like crap.
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antispatula said:
I really have no expirience with recording yet.
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C'mon, man. Cut yourself some slack. :D Did you play like Carlos freakin' Santana the first time you picked up a guitar? Did you make love like Casa freakin' Nova the first time you had sex (with your sister)?

Yea ... life sucks when you actually have to practice and work at things, don't it?
.
 
antispatula said:
it was a little harder for me because of my reel to reel recorder. And my inexpirience. The inputs on my reel to reel recorder are XLR unbalanced, pin 3 hot. I had to figure out and then build my own wires to connect it. I'm 17, and all this is pretty new to me still.
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Pin 3 is hot? It sounds like an old euro machine as they used pin3 hot. If you are using an external preamp, you should be using the line out of it into the line in on your tape deck. Those are the small RCA plugs. If you are using the preamp out into the XLR inputs of your tape deck, you will have a big mis match.
What is the make and model of the tape deck?
 
Good Pickup, Chance! Those XLR inputs, are you sure they are *line* level inputs? What specific model is it? If they are mic inputs, your problem is obvious.
Please describe every input and output of the machine- pictures would be good.- Richie
 
hey, thanks everyone for the help! As for the inputs:

My machine is an Otari MX5050 MKIII 8 track 1/2". It was made in 83. The ins are XLR UNBALANCED (weird, I know) and wired to pin 3 hot. I go from my DMP3 to the ins of the reel to reel. Don't worry, I've made my own wires for that, and then even checked in the manual and turns out I made them exactly how I was supposed to :)

I THINK I've actaully be able to get a pretty decent sound out of my machine. Keep in mind that I am running a mic into a pre directly into the reel to reel, since I don't have a mixer at the moment :rolleyes: And my machine has a built in monitoring system too! How much does mixing and mastering have to do with how great the song is? I know that's another dumb sounding question, but it seems that now that I have a more nice full sounding guitar, it overpowers the vocals I've tried. Is this normal? Should I be able to take care of this during mixing?
 
it really sounds like you are on your shit to me, but has anyone questioned the heads? bias? alignment?

lots of things can go wrong with a tape recorder.
 
heads are in great shape, they were demagged like a week ago, cleaned pretty recently, and I haven't been able to calibrate it quite yet, I'm waiting for my milivolt meter in the mail. It WAS biased many years ago for Scotch 226 which is equivalent to Quantegy 456, what I use.
 
hmmm, that's actually a good thing! The less circuitry in your path, the better :)

I agree with lots of other folks that your room might be a big reason why it sounds like doggy doo.

antispatula said:
Keep in mind that I am running a mic into a pre directly into the reel to reel, since I don't have a mixer at the moment :rolleyes:
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This machine's line input is XLR which would explain why pin #3 is hot and unbalanced. When you made your cables I assume you used shielded cable. The mic in is also XLR, and line out is XLR (male)
 
antispatula said:
heads are in great shape, they were demagged like a week ago, cleaned pretty recently, and I haven't been able to calibrate it quite yet, I'm waiting for my milivolt meter in the mail. It WAS biased many years ago for Scotch 226 which is equivalent to Quantegy 456, what I use.
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i'll say it again, for some one who calls themselves a noob, you are on it. :cool:
 
giraffe said:
i'll say it again, for some one who calls themselves a noob, you are on it. :cool:
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hehe thanks, but when it comes down to it, I barely know what I'm talking about! :D :mad:
 
Break out the duct tape and the blankets, move some bookshelves around. Or just buy some sound panels and experiment. I also think it is a good idea to start with one mic. Maybe you are having phase issues with both?

Pete
 
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