This could be a earth shaking approach

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CyanJaguar

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In fact, I know that it will be an earth shaking approach, but only if I have the fortitude to seriously think about it, research it, and develop it.

200 years from now, they might be calling CyanJaguar the father of "melodic quantitative" and the institutor of a generation of hit songwriters (assuming that the melody is what makes a hit).

Anyhow, if I can think clearly enough to try to explain it, here goes, in the very first writing.

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Many people think of music in terms of bars and beats, with the exception of the melody. To many, the melody is a flowing, progressive element where the next note or phrase is somehow structurally related to the last note or phrase.

Most people think of changing the structure of a melody at very few points within the song: the melody structure might change at the approach/prechorus and at the chorus, and maybe another time at the bridge.

This system of thinking and songwriting is essentially flawed. It restricts the artist from complete creative expression and creates a sometimes monotonous melodic ambience. MOre importantly, if a songwriter is unable to successfully find a wildcard, it forces the songwriter to continue to develop an uninteresting melody and provides no avenuues for new wildcards to be injected into the melody.

What then is my new approach? actually, its not a new approach. Its a techniqe that many succesful songwriters already subconsciously employ. I am just giving it a name and definition so that many aspiring wildcard writers can identify it and employ it.

For lack of a better term, I am calling it the "melodic quantitative".
The "melodic quantitative" or MQ for short suggests thinking about the melody in beats and bars where the next bar need not have any structural relation to the last bar or beat except key ( i.e the bars should be in the same key)

That is to say, if a songwriter has an 8 bar verse, he could very well have 8 or more totally unrelated melody pieces that are only joined together by key. so,for example, he could go from singing only one note in one bar to singing 16 notes in the next bar or from singing in one octave in one bar to singing in a totally different octave in the next bar. An adventorous wildcard writer could even divide the bars into different melody sections for more creativitity.

This is not to say that there to be no repitition. No. If a songwriter finds a unique or exceptional melodic phrase, then its up to the writer to decide whether to duplicate it (as if commonly done in verses and choruses nowadays) or to go off in a totally new direction.
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thats the end of my first draft. I am looking for people to expound on and clarify what I am saying, so please add your thoughts and comments.

Finally, look for my next post in the clinic that will employ the melodic quantitative.
 
Perhaps you could offer up a tune to illustrate your theory. It would be interesting to hear.

bd
 
Layla Nahar said:
I'm gonna write a perl script that could do that
LOL....




not if I write a VB script to do it first....



:D




Seriously, though... for all the slack that Cyan gets... I agree with him to an extent. I think wildcards are key to successful writing, and I think there are certain "givens" in songwriting.



But I don't think anyone will ever be able to quantify them. It will always be an elusive thing. (sorry Cyan... nice try though. :p)



WATYF
 
WATYF said:
I think wildcards are key to successful writing

It's called a godamn fucking HOOK and the concept has been around for ages.

I'm going to invent a circular device that can be used in all forms of transportation and machinery. I think I'll call it the 'Circular Movealonger".
 
TexRoadkill said:
I'm going to invent a circular device that can be used in all forms of transportation and machinery. I think I'll call it the 'Circular Movealonger".

Don't give away all your great ideas, Tex. :D
 
TexRoadkill said:
I'm going to invent a circular device that can be used in all forms of transportation and machinery. I think I'll call it the 'Circular Movealonger".

lol.
 
TexRoadkill said:
It's called a godamn fucking HOOK and the concept has been around for ages.

I'm going to invent a circular device that can be used in all forms of transportation and machinery. I think I'll call it the 'Circular Movealonger".
LOL...



well I call it a hook too... I was just trying to speak his language... :p


WATYF
 
man when cyan puts this whole "wildcard package"...of systems and means down .....WE ARE ALL FUCKED.



:D
jamal.....<--- who doesnt subscribe to a set "way " of doing anything other than if it takes more than 20or 30 minutes its probably too long....
 
TexRoadkill said:
It's called a godamn fucking HOOK and the concept has been around for ages.


Dude, sorry. That thinking could end up restricting your music till the end.

And this thread is about a new way of thinking about and creating melodies and not the wildcard. Please, let those who are interested in finding new and improved ways of doing things do that, without starting a base arguement about wildcards.

Thanks
 
Jamal Bucket said:
man when cyan puts this whole "wildcard package"...of systems and means down .....WE ARE ALL FUCKED.



:D
jamal.....<--- who doesnt subscribe to a set "way " of doing anything other than if it takes more than 20or 30 minutes its probably too long....

LOL. I'm pretty sure someone said those exact words when someone devised the 12 note scale. Yet 99% of the music we hear adheres to that 12 note scale. Seriously though, if you heard a note that was off the scale, you would probably not like it, even though its a valid note.

I am just trying to find ways to make the art of good music less arbitrary and more rewarding.
 
knowing formulas wont help you write a hit song -

its called talent.....
 
p.s.

i think discussion on anything is a great idea dont mistake my trying to be funny as anything other than what it was ...well you could mistake it for actually BEING funny i guess...:D
 
I'd have to agree with gidge. I really don't think you will ever come up with a formula or recipe for hit songs. If there was a formula to follow, I think it would look more like this:

Step 1: Look deep inside of your soul, your true self, for a topic, story, theme, or mood that stirs up emotion within you. The emotion can be sadness, anger, joy, etc. As long as the emotion is strong.

Step 2: Once you have a basic idea for a song, start getting things down on paper, disk, tape, whatever floats your boat. Don't worry about being specific. Just capture your basic idea.

Step 3: Let the song move in several directions and record them all. Try using several different riffs, beats, bass lines, vocals. Move things around. Apply several different creative ideas.

Step 4: Put it all together.

But this is just my own opinion. Everyone does things differently...even I don't follow that formula everytime I write a song. Just my 2 cents worth.....
 
When I come back from paris, I am going to try to write one song a week. Whether it sucks or not. BUt the point will be to finish the song. Even if it sucks.
 
TexRoadkill said:
It's called a godamn fucking HOOK and the concept has been around for ages..

I have to agree, although I might have worded it a bit more....lets say...softly, I have wanted to scream that into my song writing partners face many times over the last 12 years. We fight about this alot. IMHO...Melody should be hook (although not always the main hook), and there should be repetition. There are a few songs that do what CyanJaguar suggest that come to mind, but none of which I can remember being hits. Axl Rose touches on it somewhat on the Use You Illusion ablums (Coma), which is a great song (one of the best on the album), but he applies it a little more to the structure of the song itself, than the melody.
 
I believe there are formuas, in that certain structures, rhyme schemes, etc. seem to be more commercial.....

my point would be even if given the formula,, its gonna take talent to write it.......
 
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