thinning proximity effect w/ omnidirectional?

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ssman

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I'm recording with an earthworks qtc40, and as I get right up to the mic (2" away) the sound thins out. When I get farther back (2 - 4 feet) the sound is more natural and big. I thought the opposite is suppose to happen.


(I'm in a small bad room, 14 x 11.5 x 8, wooden floor, but I have bunch of stuff in it... 2 desks, a full bed, 2 bookcases)
 
what are you trying to record? The room could be doing that, but normally omni's sound bigger at the mid field or reverberant field of the instrument. A decent omni does not have a proximity effect like a cardiod etc in most cases.
 
ssman said:
I'm recording with an earthworks qtc40, and as I get right up to the mic (2" away) the sound thins out. When I get farther back (2 - 4 feet) the sound is more natural and big. I thought the opposite is suppose to happen.
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The opposite - the proximity effect - applies to cardioid, not omni, microphones.

What might possibly be happening is that when you back away the mic is picking up more of the sound from your chest, whereas when you get up close, your throat and nasal sound becomes more dominant. This would especially be truer if your singing style was more from your diaphragm than from your throat.

G.
 
Well, that's an interesting guess. I'm going to go in a different direction:

My theory is that when you are singing that close to the mic you are over-driving some part of the signal chain - the mic itself, the preamp, etc. The resulting distorted sound could come across as "thinner" than the natural sound of the undistorted voice.

At least, that's my guess...
 
My theory is that when you are singing that close to the mic you are over-driving some part of the signal chain
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Yes, I think this is what's happening, specifically because when I go louder at the short distance, the sound becomes even thinner.

So how do I prevent from over driving?
 
If that mic is anything like the Earthworks QTC-1's that I have, they have an extremely hot output - to the point where you could probably get away without a preamp, assuming that you had some other source of phantom power.

So if it is the preamp that is distorting, you need to engage the pad, if it has one. If it doesn't, you can get an "inline pad" which looks like a cylinder about the size of your thumb. You plug it into either end of your mic cable, and it attenuates the signal. You can get them with varying amounts of attenuation (-10dB, -20dB, -30dB) and they only cost about $15-20. I would get the -20dB one to start.

However, if it is the mic itself that is distorting, you have no choice other than to back up (or sing softer).

But that begs the question as to why you are using this mic to record vocals to begin with? I hardly consider it an ideal mic for close-up vocals (although it would be perfect for recording a choir from more of a distance.) Is the reason you are using it because it is the only mic you own?
 
I want a mic that is as transparent/uncolored as possible. I made a thread about it before buying it, and, as expected, some people recommended it highly (one of them runs one of the websites that puts samples of different equipment clips) and others said they wouldn't use it for vocals :confused:
 
Why not on vocals? Because:

a) miniature omnis are usually very susceptible to wind noises, especially popping "p's

b) they have no proximity effect, and a good vocalist likes to be able to use proximity as a performance effect

c) they pick up more early reflections from the room, so any problems with mic placement and room treatment (or lack of) become much more obvious

d) flat, transparent, and accurate do not necessarily translate into being the most flattering on a particular voice

e) they are also more susceptible to humidity, so breathing on them is not a good idea


There are reasons why almost every vocal recording that you have ever heard that was close mic'ed was NOT done with a small diaphragm omni. But there's no law against it, last time I looked. So maybe you'll start a revolutionary trend. Good luck! ;)
 
littledog - not to "call you out" or anything - but i was under the impression omni's are not suspectible to plosives. i can't find info on it though to verify. i could be wrong but when i use a 4006 (great vocal mic!) i rarely have trouble with them issues. i could be wrong.

to the OP - distance is depth! :eek:

Mike
 
bigtoe said:
littledog - not to "call you out" or anything - but i was under the impression omni's are not suspectible to plosives. i can't find info on it though to verify. i could be wrong but when i use a 4006 (great vocal mic!) i rarely have trouble with them issues. i could be wrong.
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I think the problem is that perhaps we have different definitions of "miniature". With a capsule diameter of 16 mm, I would not call the 4006 a miniature diaphragm mic. But since there is no precise scientific definition of large, small, minaiture, etc. (they are just term of convenience) I suppose you can define it any way you wish.
 
no no...i'm talking omni...true omni's not the dual capsules combined...whatever the size. i don't think you have a chance of plosives happening...as the 'promiximity effect' is not there...that is what makes the pop...

again - i could be wrong - as i'm operating on fumes. :eek:

Mike
 
bigtoe said:
i don't think you have a chance of plosives happening...as the 'promiximity effect' is not there...that is what makes the pop...

Mike
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I always thought it was the air hitting the diaphram. :confused:

Omnis are less sensitive to plosives, but I don't know that they're immune.
 
proximity effect (or bass tip up as the kids call it) is a property of directional microphones.

Generally (and maybe this will be disputed) anything over 1" is considered large diaphragm. Now let's see, roughly 3' in a meter...
 
Plosives are not caused only by proximity effect. I'll accept your fumes explanation.
 
hahaha...well, i'll keep trying to pop my omni's. :eek: :D

best to ya.

Mike
 
bigtoe said:
i don't think you have a chance of plosives happening...as the 'promiximity effect' is not there...
Mike
Click to expand...

plo·sive (plō'sĭv, -zĭv)
adj.
Of, relating to, or being a speech sound produced by complete closure of the oral passage and subsequent release accompanied by a burst of air, as in the sound (p) in pit or (d) in dog.

n.
A plosive speech sound.



I think it is the burst of air that gets them, but yeah I would believe the P's don't sound as bassy on an omni vs a close-up cardiod.
 
good definitions - i guess when i think of popping the mic i think the low stuff...but either way...fumes or no fumes - using an omni (or a wider cardioid) will help get rid of a popping problem - not emphasize it. try it.

Mike
 
Some day if you get a miniature diaphragm omni, try it yourself. No reason to take my word (or any one elses's for that matter). But you keep insisting that the size of the diaphragm has no bearing on the issue, and the only thing that matters is the polar pattern. I wonder what miniature diaphragm omnis you've actually tried singing into.
 
i have - i've used stapes and 8000's - are those small enough? i think they use the same element as the earthworks. perhaps their page has something about it.

i will look into the size issue...but i again - i just haven't had the problem...nor heard of it which is why i asked...and again - i'm not trying to call you out at all. i have as many gaps in my knowledge as i have gaps in my hairline...

i dunno. if you could tell me why or point me to something that gives the reason that'd be cool. if you can't, right on too...

peace and chicken grease.

Mike
 
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