Thinking of buying a module.....need some advice first

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5c0tt

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Hi guys. This may turn out to be a lengthy post but I'd be really grateful if you stick with it & help me out. Some of the questions are probably very basic but I want to understand the facts before I go spending my cash.

So, I'm thinking of buying a module. I do pop/rock/alternative type stuff mainly, but I dabble in a bit of everything really.
I'm thinking Roland XV5050/EMU Proteus 2000 at the moment.

My main gear:
PC running a fairly basic midi sequencer.
Korg D16 multitracker- everything ends up on this.
Alesis SR16 drum machine.
Cheap Casio keyboard, complete with cheesy sounds & high noise floor.
Midiman 4x4 to get them all talking to each other.
Various other bits of kit- preamps, mics, monitors, guitars etc etc

How I normally work:
I input notes to my sequencer from the Casio- these notes trigger the Casio sounds & the SR16. They both output to the Korg.
I record my guitars, vocals etc to the Korg, using the Korg as the master clock to run the sequenced stuff.
Once the tune is 'ready', I dump the drums & keyboard sounds to individual tracks on the Korg then do the mix.
All pretty standard I guess.

So, to the questions:
1.
My Casio is easy to understand- if I choose the notes on track 1 on my sequencer to be, say, piano (000 GM format of course) & track 2 to be strings (048) then that's what I get.
Easy.
But on a module there seems to be performance mode, patch mode etc. The patches may be like 4 tones all played together with effects and stuff- would I be able to put the 'Megastrings With Piano and Effects' patch on track 1 & then 'Synth-lead-multi-voice' on track 2 etc etc? Or would I have to use the raw sounds from the module & build up the tones on seperate tracks to get the same sounds?
I understand polyphony & multitimbrality (is that a word!?) so there's no need to go there.

2.
The units I mentioned earlier have built in effects processors.
I've tried to find out but I can't determine if the processors are insert type effects or 'global' type effects. For example, could I treat my strings track to reverb, chorus & multi fx, then treat my other tracks to completely different reverb & chorus settings or would I be stuck with a send/return global effect type situation for all the sounds I'm using?

3.
The XV5050 is 16 part/64 voice with 4 outputs + S/PDIF.
The Proteus 2000 is 32 part/128 voice with 6 outs + S/PDIF.
I've read good things about the XV's sounds.
I've read not so good things about the Proteus sounds (they can't be that bad can they?) Also, I've read that the Proteus sounds more like a dance module than a general module- any comments? I'm more interested in a good general module.
The XV costs 600 UK pounds. The Proteus is 450 pounds.
My budget is tight but, if it was worth it, I'd go with the XV.

God, I hope that lot makes sense- I've had quite a few beers!

If you've read this far- thanks! Any advice you may have is welcome.

Scott
 
5c0tt,
I would recommend the Roland over the Emu since I just like
the Roland sounds better.
I have always found editing on modules rather annoying, and
unfortunately, the newest "improved" models seem to have
a display that is a step backwards.
Since you are using a PC for your sequencing, I would recommend
a Roland SK-88Pro. This is a module with 64 note polyphony,32
part midi since it has two sets of Midi ins and outs,
4 outputs, effects, large-easy to read and understand display.
It does not have S/PDIF outputs, but has a 3 octave velocity
sensitive keyboard, programmable slider, programmable footswitch and footpedal inputs. I think something like this
would simplify your setup and have less clutter, since you would
no longer need to use your Casio keyboard. Also, a good PC
sequencer would eliminate the need for the SR-16 since the
SK-88Pro drumkits are superb(plus remember they can have
effects-unlike the SR-16).
It is unfortunately discontinued, but I have a brand new in box
that I never used. It includes editing software and a computer
serial cable that can be used instead of MIDI connectors for
32 channel midi. Also included is the power adaptor and of course, the manual. If you happen to be interested, please email me.
 
Thanks Vectron. I gotta admit, the SK88Pro looks like a nice peice of kit. I found some info on it & there a lot of reasons why it would be ideal for me (most notably, the 16 insert FX) but I think I'd prefer to buy into the newer patches that the xv series has.
Thanks but no thanks.

Could take a minute to help me understand the patch/performance functions of this type of module. I think I would be able to use the patches as part of a performance set but obviously I'm a little hazy on how it all works.
I'm not really a keys player so it would all be sequence driven stuff that I'd be doing.

Scott
 
I had looked at the XV5050 and the Proteus (along with a couple other modules) and I went with the XV5050 - in part because I've always had good luck with Roland products, in part since I understand the Roland configurations well and in part because I got a great price on the XV5050.

I felt the Roland had more of the sampled accoustic sounds I wanted (pianos, organs, brass, etc. etc.) whereas the Proteus seemed to lean more toward production sounds and things that I wouldn't use.

Regarding the Patch mode vs. perforance mode - performance mode is designed for MIDI sequence applications where you use multiple MIDI channels (ie: piano on channel 1, drums on channel 10, etc.) The Patch mode is more for calling up a specific "patch" (sound) and tweaking it. As you suggested you use the various patches as seperate sounds assigned to each MIDI channel.

I've been very satisfied with the XV5050 - it does what I need it to do.
 
Another vote for the Roland then. The XV is looking the more likely option for me now. Thanks mikeh.
Sorry to be a pest but, is it possible to have, say, a different reverb & multi effect on each of the parts in a sequence or is it a send/return set up to one reverb & one multi effect. If you know what I mean.
Thanks for your input guys.
 
The XV5050 has three effects units 1) dedicated reverb, 2) dedicated chorus/delay, & 3) multi effects (which allows you to select one of 90 effects or combination of effects).

You can assign the effects to a patch or to a performance. However you are limited to 3 effects - so if you are in performance mode and have 16 different patches (using all 16 MIDI channels) you have to choose which of those 16 sounds (patches) get which effect.

So you can assign the dedicated revrb to one sound, a reverb from the multi F/X to another sound and chorus (or delay) to a third sound. This is done by sending (patching) the effects to the same output the sound (patch) goes to.

Now if you assign all 16 sounds to output 1 and then assign the reverb to output 1, all 16 sounds will have reverb (the same reverb). However you can control how wet or dry (how much of that reverb) each sound will be.

I hope this isn't too confusing
 
Yep, I understand what you mean mikeh. Thanks for taking the time to explain- it's cleared it up for me.

Anyone else with opinions on the XV5050 Vs Proteus 2000 for my application? Maybe there's another option altogether that I don't know about yet?

The Roland, though at the very top of my budget, is looking good.

Thanks again guys.
 
5c0tt said:
3.
The XV5050 is 16 part/64 voice with 4 outputs + S/PDIF.
The Proteus 2000 is 32 part/128 voice with 6 outs + S/PDIF.
I've read good things about the XV's sounds.
I've read not so good things about the Proteus sounds (they can't be that bad can they?) Also, I've read that the Proteus sounds more like a dance module than a general module- any comments? I'm more interested in a good general module.
The XV costs 600 UK pounds. The Proteus is 450 pounds.
My budget is tight but, if it was worth it, I'd go with the XV.
Click to expand...

I own both the Proteus 2000 and XV-5050. They are both actually quite good in their different ways. Mine paid for themselves very quickly, as they are quite useful for gigging as well as composing work.

Both units have expansion slots, so they can be customized toward whatever style of music you wish to write. I have the Holy Grail piano and the Proteii board in my P2k, and the SRX-04 Symphonique String board in my XV-5050. There are a lot of boards to choose from for both modules.

The 64 voice polyphony of the 5050 seems to run out quickly once you get a complex voice going that uses all four layers. And if you are using it in performance mode, there will be a limited number of those complex patches you'd be able to have going at once. This is really one of the few limitations of the 5050 in my opinion. It's a great module, and reasonably priced. The overall soundset is very useful, and probably a bit more balanced for general use than the Proteus 2000. The effects on 5050 are also much better than those in the Emu box. In performance mode the effects are basically global, although there is some flexibility. What you can't do though is have each channel of the performance have it's own full set of effects that it has in patch mode. You can do that with one channel in performance mode, but not two or more. This is a limitation common to most if not all synths.

On the other hand, The P2k does some things very well and has a sound that seems a bit more organic to me than the slicker Roland synth. The P2k has a lot of organs, basses and electric keyboard sounds that are quite good. The variety of basses in particular is far greater than what's in the Roland.

I just played a show where I used both the 5050 and P2k in my rack and it was a great combination. Most of the sounds came from the 5050, but a few came from the P2k, primarily the organs.

If I had to choose one for general use I'd probably go with the XV-5050 though, as I think Roland chose the basic soundset very well.
 
Thanks SonicAlbert.
Even though you mention the variety of basses in the P2K, I take it the basses on the Roland are usable but maybe not as numerous yeah?
Also, do you use the editing software with the Roland? If so, how is it to work with and how does it compare to editing from the rack?
Seems to me that the P2K is maybe easier to edit on the rack than the Roland but, with the software editor, the Roland is slicker.

Scott
 
Editing from the rack with any synth is just a matter of figuring out where everything is and memorizing the button presses to get there. Obviously, with a small LCD like what the 5050 has, you don't see a lot of data at once and you usually end up scrolling left and right a lot. But you can completely edit the sounds from the front panel. The P2k is a little easier from the front panel, but you are still dealing with a small LCD.

That said, the XV-5050 editor is pretty nice to use and seeing more information on one screen is a big help. Configuring the software the first time was a little frustrating, but now that I've got it working it's very stable. I'm on a Mac.

There is a nice selection of basses on the 5050 that sound good, just not the amount or variety the P2k has.
 
Scott, I own an XV3080 which is very similar to the XV5050 (same sound set, higher polyphony) and I have owned various Emu modules over the years although I'm not currently using one.

My 2 cents is that the XV is just great, in terms of sounds and variety. Seriously, no matter what style of music you're into, especially pop/rock, it will satisfy. I particularly love the guitars more than any other rompler (find the XV steel guitar and you'll see what I mean), strings are outstanding, and *some* of the keyboards on the XV are really good, but I agree with Albert about the basses, and IMO the horns leave a lot to be desired. For basses, horns and some other things I use a Triton Rack. Synth/effect type sounds are pretty good on the XV. If I had to keep just ONE module it would be the XV. There are SO MANY sounds and so few of them are bad. Hope that helps.

Larry
 
Thanks again guys. I actually managed to have a quick play around with the xv5050 today!
I didn't have long so I flicked through to find some of the main sounds + checked out some of the GM sounds too. Sounded very good and, strange that you mentioned it Larry, I thought the steel guitar sounded superb!
The software editor was also running so I was able to have a quick look at it- looks to be very comprehensive- ideal.
A guy from Roland was actually at the shop for the day but I didn't have enough time to grill him with some of my questions.
Gotta dash now actually- my friend got hitched today & now it's party time!!
I'll post more tomorrow hopefully (once the hangover is gone:)

Scott
 
If you can get an XV3080, go for it. The 5050, the problem is those complex stereo patches quickly taking over the polyphony. Kind of hard to get, nowadays, but the 3080 has a bit more value than the 5050, and I was lucky enough to get a new 3080 for a little less than a 5050.

While the Protues 2000 itself isn't terribly hot when it comes to sounds, I think the others in the Proteus line are VERY good. Virtuoso is very good box (not Giga library quality, but definitely better than the Roland stuff) and MoPhatt is pretty darn good as well.
 
Wow, that was one hell of a party!

Can't quite remember Slathill, but I'm sure there was something that put me off the 3080 (though I know it has more polyphony).

Final question, I think, before I go for a 5050.
Can the software editor be used when the sequence is running? Or would I have to stop the sequencer (or even come out of it all together) to do editing?
 
besides polyphony, the other big difference with the 3080 is that it has one SFX unit compared to the 3 on the 5080. Depending on your taste, this could be a big thing. With my effects plugins, though, I'd rather have the extra polyphony compared to the 5050 (which was 50 bucks more than what I got my 3080 for...)

No clue about the software editor, but I don't see why not...
 
Yeah, the extra FX on the 5050 are pretty important to me because of the way I work & my setup in general. I reckon the editing situation will be OK too but I'm just looking for confirmation.
Thanks for the info anyway....it's all appreciated. You can be first to rip into me when I come back moaning about polyphony!
Scott
 
As far as I know there is no direct keyboard equivalent of the 5050. I think the closest thing is the XV-88, which is more an equivalent of the 3080.

If money is no problem, then take the Fantom XR over the 5050. Big time.
 
What are you??? An archeologist??? Digging up all these old posts. Anyways. XV-5050 is more a "Lite" version of the XV-5080 which was the ultimate successor to the JV modules (Like JV-2080), and also incorporporated technology that was found on the XP series boards (i.e. XP-80).
 
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