Thicker Crunch ==> stinging hi's

[VesuviusJay]

I am going crazy over this issue I have been struggling with. Maybe you seasoned folk can help me out, as I have been trying for months to get the right sound. Now mind you, I do like the sound I get from my amp(Crate GFX212-T) when I am just riffing or jamming out. So here's the problem.

First I will describe my recording setup. I am using Nuendo 1.6. Behringer 1604A mixer, SM57 beta, and stageworks drum mic's with the following specs:

DRK-218 Specifications: Kick drum Mic

Type: Dynamic
Polar Pattern: Super Cardioid
Frequency Response: 30 - 10000 Hz
Sensitivity (dBV/pa): -63 (0.7mv/pa)
Rated Impedance (?): 200
Max. SPL (dB): 146 dB

DRK-228 Specifications: 3 tom and snare mic's

Type: Dynamic
Polar Pattern: Super Cardioid
Frequency Response: 50 - 16000 Hz
Sensitivity (dBV/pa): -53 (2.2 mv/pa)
Rated Impedance (?): 500
Max. SPL (dB): 134 dB.

Now remember I'M NOT RECORDING DRUMS just rythm and lead for extreme thrash/death style metal, which many of you have heard now. I am recording my own music so I guess I'm a little anal about the guitar sound, but I NEED PERFECTION OR I WILL GO CRAZY!!! :| I'm using new mic cable, and monster cable for instrument and speaker. I'm recording in a 10X18 garage which I had a little trouble with innitially with room reflection and bass reverb, but with close micing I solved it. Now to my exact trouble. No matter how I place the mics, I can get a great soundng sick mid range howl and screaming hi's, but absolutely no bottom end palm mute crunch. Like I said the amp sounds great in the garage standing out there riffing. but when heard through the monitors theres no tight low end chunky palm mute. Especially if I track 2 tracks of rythm and pan them, the "chug chug chug" gets lost in the kick drum riff. HELP!!! Ill attatch a sketch of my setup maybe you can tell by that.

Thanks all

Jay

 

[plexi]

Seriously, your Crate isn`t up to it, deal with it!
It`s not happening at the source, and will stay that way until you get a better amp.Period
There`s nothing you can do with mixers, mics, compressors etc....
Of course, the behringer mixer isn`t exactly helping , but you should still be able to get reasonable results.
Get a Mesa Rectifier or similar.
You have posted this question in various forms several times now, it`s time to listen!

I`m not trying to be an ass here, I`m just trying to tell you the hard facts.

Peace

Amund

 

[VesuviusJay]

So you are 100% positive it is the amp?

 

[VesuviusJay]

And how could it be the amp when I said the amp has the sound I want when I am standing there jamming???

 

[plexi]

When you are standing there jamming,you don`t have your ear stuck right at the cone of the speaker, you are not hearing what the mic is "hearing".
Unless your converters are totally crap, you should be able to get a useful sound, IF the source is right......
There are no "secret" tricks to achieve that chunky, palm muted sound......

But you can try this;
Try setting your amp at ear level, and adjust the eq(on the amp)
till it sounds right. When you record, try it at different levels, from low till full blast, as the speakers sound different at different volumes.

Try two mics at the same speaker, move one of them until you have the most phase cancellation , then flip the phase.
This should give you a little low end boost.

If none of this does help, see my first answer
Amund

 

[TexRoadkill]

Are you listening to the guitar tracks playing with bass, drums and vocals? If not there is no point in trying to get the perfect sound because the perfect sound is what works with everything else. You may finally get the perfect guitar tone only to find out later that it's clashing with the bass guitar and drummer.

Most guitarists who record put way too much low end in their tone. Stop worrying about the guitar and worry about the entire mix.

 

[VesuviusJay]

See if this is a better stab at it.

http://vesuviusdeath.com/hpsampledemo.zip

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Alrighty then. First thing I see is that the mic is facing head on in the center of the speaker cone. The mic should be off to the left of center of the cone, closer to the edge of the speaker. Second you should also turn the mic so its facing perpendicualr to the cone where the mic is. Micing the center of any speaker will cause alot of high end shrill, sometimes painful if your doing pinch harmonics. (plexis touched on this) The trick is to move the mic where its not picking up the extreme hf transients. Put the amp up on some blocks to get some air under the cabinet, and throw a heavy blanket over it all. Sometimes I will even face the amp into the corner with the mic about 2 inches away from the grill to pick up some fast reflections ala Yngwie Malmsteen. Ive gotten stellar sounds out of Crates before so I see no reason for other people not to. Every amp has a sweet spot.


SoMm

 

[plexi]

Alrighty then. First thing I see is that the mic is facing head on in the center of the speaker cone. The mic should be off to the left of center of the cone, closer to the edge of the speaker.

Funnily, each time I`m recording nu-metal or similar, it almost always sounds the best with the 57`jammed into the center of the cone....

Second you should also turn the mic so its facing perpendicualr to the cone where the mic is. Micing the center of any speaker will cause alot of high end shrill, sometimes painful if your doing pinch harmonics.

That depends on the amp and speaker, there are no set rules!
In fact, center of cone is my "default" poisition......Angling the mic slightly can really help too.....

Put the amp up on some blocks to get some air under the cabinet, and throw a heavy blanket over it all

getting the cab up from the floor helps a lot, it`s amazing how those early reflections can sneak their way into your mic, good advice.

Amund

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Funnily, each time I`m recording nu-metal or similar, it almost always sounds the best with the 57`jammed into the center of the cone....

Consider yourself to have been blessed. Im highly sensitive to hf in distorted guitars. I guess if your amp is a little less edgy than it might not be a problem. Strings can also contribute to the problem. New strings are usually too bright for me.

That depends on the amp and speaker, there are no set rules!
In fact, center of cone is my "default" poisition......Angling the mic slightly can really help too.....

True, the dead give away it the diameter of the cone itself regardless of speaker size. A 12 inch speaker with a 1 inch diameter cone will nearly always have more hf off the center mic position. 2x12 cabinets are usually kind of hard to yank the low end bump when doing palming the open E or whatever tuning your using. If the amp sound great in the garage, use a combo of the recomendations here and add a large diameter condensor room mic about where you normally listen to the amp. See if it helps.

getting the cab up from the floor helps a lot, it`s amazing how those early reflections can sneak their way into your mic, good advice.

Amund

Yeah, they can be heplful sometimes. I have a table to mic stand sitting on bricks with carpet under the stand and under the bricks with no less that 2 blankets over the cabinet. Plus its all inside a box made of 2X4's and drywall with insulation inside like a normal wall. The head is sitting outside the box in between my main monitors where I can tweek the settings. Its too loud to have anywhere else.

SoMm