The Wall Of Sound

[Kasey]

Everyone always seems to come to a point when they want a massive wall of sound for some reason or another. Everyone also knows that getting that sound is really hard, especially with home recording equipment. What are everyone's techniques for acheiving the famous wall of sound?

I've heard people say that minimalism is the key, that less is more, but on the other end of the spectrum the most massive wall of sound i've ever heard had 6 guitars, 2 drums sets, a distorted bass, and vocals.

If you have techniques for acheiving the wall of sound, share the wealth.

 

[MadAudio]

I'd hire Phil Spector, the originator of the Wall of Sound, except a) he's not cheap, and b) I think he's in jail for murder!

 

[chessrock]

Make sure that each sound you add to the pot "does something" and has a purpose. Don't just throw something in for the sake of throwing it in, or because you worked really hard on it. When you add it, if it doesn't make the mix better, then throw it out -- even if you worked all day on it.

When you layer the six guitar tracks, use different guitars on each take. Use different amps on each take, if that's possible. Use different chords if you can ... or the same chords played in a different position on the fret board. Different mics, etc. Otherwise everything just kinda' mushes together in to a murky goo.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Chessrock is right on all counts. A major part of the trick (and it's a *really tough* trick to pull off) is to try and acrhitect the sounds of your tracks to fit in together with as little spectral redundancy as possible.

What helps with that is judicious use of low- and high-pass filtering and shelving on the individual tracks to mute extreme or unnecessary parts of the spectrum for each instrument. For example, shelving the kick above 300Hz, rolling off the gits below 40Hz, shelving the hihats below ~450Hz, etc. This will help reduce unnecessary bleed from other instruments, make more "room" for instruments in other tracks and reduce noise and harmonic summing that can really muck things up when adding a bunch of tracks together. This will all alow you to add a greater number of tracks to the wall before the mud gets too thick.

Then, once you have all the tracks assembled as described, send them all off to an aux bus going into a large-room-style reverb. Use some (but not a whole lot) of the wet return from this aux verb to backfill the main tracks. This supplies the "mortar" which glues the individual tracks like bricks into a unified wall. This is tricky. Over-do the verb and you're back to the "goo" that Chess was talking about; under-do it and the "wall" just doesn't get that solid Phil Spector feel.

G.

 

[chessrock]

...try and acrhitect the sounds of your tracks to fit in together with as little spectral redundancy as possible.

"Spectral Redundancy." That's a great way of putting it.


I'll also add that when you get to layering that much stuff, I would stick with mostly mono tracks. Stereo mic'ing is nice for sparse mixes, but it can be overkill as the tracks start pilin' up. Also, mic things at various distances. The buildup of proximity effect over several million tracks will be your enemy.

 

[timmerman]

I recently listened to a programme about ELO and how they created their massive sound.

At some point in the programme they mentioned that they overdubbed a violin a million times to create that huge orchestral sound. Of course each overdub needs to contain different notes, relating to what went before.

I am interested in doing some of this myself with a particular guitarsound,.............could use the volumeswell technique to create that "violin-like" quality, just recording one note at each take, and start adding notes in different places, using different amps, different gtrs., different places on the fretboard, different rooms etc.

 

[CoolCat]

Spector's wall of sound

I'd hire Phil Spector, the originator of the Wall of Sound, except a) he's not cheap, and b) I think he's in jail for murder!

and)
an article i read said Spector didn't really invent the "wall of sound"!!
it was Dave Gold the engineer/owner of the small studio...that Spector used.

but being Spector produced Pop Hits, recorded at Gold Studios and this big reverb sound was noticed on Spectors hits...and blah,blah,blah...we all give credit to Spector for the Dave Gold Wall of Sound.
Dave Golds studio in Calif. with a hand made-reverb chamber and hand built tube/valve boards.... i wasn't there.

its like the BEatles inventing Flanger sounds...when it was really an unknown Abbey Road Eng-tech that created the physical unit...probably didn't get sht for it in $$$.

i guess now Spector will have all the reverbs he wants!! in prison!!!
that PRISON WALL OF SOUND..hahahaaa

 

[diogo]

that PRISON WALL OF SOUND..hahahaaa

cool man...you're going crazy, i can hear the evil laugh all the way here in europe..that line should be in the end of some evil mobster's movie dialogue..





























or a mental cop movie.

 

[diogo]

on subject..

i always read that Spector used lots and lots of mics at the same time...i guess he must be the only guy on earth that can pull this off without falling into phase hell

for me, his wall of sound is more of urban legend than anything..i dunno how someone could pull something like 10 mics at the same time and not have brutal phase problems..even if he was using 10 different pres...and reversed one channel for each two mics, he would still get phase trouble with the other mics right? when phase starts building up, its just not worth the hassle anymore...so, if this is true or not, its beyond me, i just dont see how he could pull it off..

beats me..

my non acoustic guitar work is mostly walls of sound, shoegaze, whatever...and i get very pleasant results with some creative panning and different fx's on similar tracks, the different tracks basically take care of themselves cause the notes are different obviously...a good reverb or a good reverb on one seminal track (panned center), leaving every other guitar track with delay only, seems to work for me as well when im working with more than 3/4 tracks - in order to not sacrifice clarity, wich will happen if u put reverb on every track.

mics...a 57 and a B1 - for me. i dont like the 57 anymore (it works on cleans, but im disapointed by it when i want to get the wall of sound thing) so i ordered the B1, and i have serious expectations that its gonna be a lot better than the 57. anyway, ill be using these mics and trust they'll work. i have used the 57 for a year now and it works, not briliant, but works.

mic everything with space.

and a good tube amp does wonders too..i wouldnt even get near amp simulation stuff, never tried anything like that, and i NEVER will..

HAHAHAHAAhahahahahahaaaaaa

 

[Kasey]

i wouldnt even get near amp simulation stuff, never tried anything like that, and i NEVER will..

word.
the idea of amp simulation is respectable, but the actual product that it produces is usually worse than whatever amp is actually being used.

 

[Dani Pace]

The biggest problem with the wall of sound idea is when we tend to overdo and things get muddy. As said before, each new track has to have its distinct sound and MUST compliment the other tracks. One trick is to clone a track (several times if nessassary) and add different effects to each, then fade them in and out where you want to emphasise the effect (with the other effects diminished in the background.) This works for guitar quite well, I'm not sure about for other instruments.

 

[mrface2112]

Phil Spector's wall of sound was a LOT more about having a HUGE number of musicians playing live, in the same small room, than it was using a lot of mics or tracks. there are 2 ways of getting a bunch of "the same part"--overdub it a shitload, or have a lot of people playing it at once. overdubs, as we know them, weren't possible in those days, so having a lot of people was the answer. and the rooms were very small. easy to get an overpowering sound with a lot of musicians in a small room.

as for flanging at abbey road, it wasn't a "unit" that was "made".....it was the laying of a finger on the flange of the tape reel. Try it some time, if you have a reel to reel. Credit Geoff Emerick for that one.


cheers,
wade

 

[diogo]

Phil Spector's wall of sound was a LOT more about having a HUGE number of musicians playing live, in the same small room, than it was using a lot of mics or tracks. there are 2 ways of getting a bunch of "the same part"--overdub it a shitload, or have a lot of people playing it at once. overdubs, as we know them, weren't possible in those days, so having a lot of people was the answer. and the rooms were very small. easy to get an overpowering sound with a lot of musicians in a small room.

i read that too, but i also read about lots of mics, and also lots of mics on the same side of the room too.

 

[boingoman]

on subject..

i always read that Spector used lots and lots of mics at the same time...i guess he must be the only guy on earth that can pull this off without falling into phase hell

for me, his wall of sound is more of urban legend than anything..i dunno how someone could pull something like 10 mics at the same time and not have brutal phase problems..even if he was using 10 different pres...and reversed one channel for each two mics, he would still get phase trouble with the other mics right? when phase starts building up, its just not worth the hassle anymore...so, if this is true or not, its beyond me, i just dont see how he could pull it off..

Close mics or far? 10 close mics is easy. Follow the 3:1 rule and no problems, really. Far mics would be a bit trickier, but still possible.

 

[diogo]

boingoman,

i actually dunno, but from what i read, the mental picture i got would be lots of mics on one side of the room, and the musicians scatered around whatever space was left..so: far mics..not close.

ive read this a long time ago, and although im sure the mental picture is right, i didnt know the little i know now, so the way i understood it at the time, probably wouldnt sound right today..i dunno. i remember the mental picture, but not the exact words. it was in some mag or book, i cant remember, wasnt even on the net :/