The perfect [digital] console

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frederic

frederic

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There are several things I dislike about digital consoles of today.

1. No monitoring built into the input channels.

Those of us who have had the pleasure of touching Neve, SSL, Amek etc, might recall each input channel having two faders. In recording mode, the tape returns were connected to a seperate pan and fader (smaller in size) and the mic/line input was connected to EQ, compressor, buss select then pan and fader. In recording mode, there was a neat little "flip" switch that would reverse the tape return and the mic/line input so one could then apply compression/EQ to a tape return for final mixing, if they chose to.

2. Expandability.

The older consoles could be purchased in say, 12x12 configuration, with many "slots" available for input, monitor, or master cards to be installed later, to expand the board to 56x12, or 24x24, or whatever truly floated your boat. This was done on a backplane concept, much like a common PC with PCI slots. Expand to your liking and purpose.

3. Knobs and faders.

While I've adapted to the "digital pod" mentality, I do miss knobs, switches and faders terribly.

4. Automation.

Most mid to high end digital mixers have automation, so I can't really gripe about it, but ever try to edit the automation stuff? With a DAW is very easy, with a digital mixer, its not so easy. Back to my above gripe about the "Pod" concept.



My question to the group is this ...

What do you think about the concept of a large-format digital controler that looks, feels, and blinks like a larger format analog console, but really is just a control surface, controlling either a digital rack-mount box with DSP chips in it, or a similarly sized rack-mount box with lots of OP-AMPs instead?

Picture expandable mixing units with full repeatable automation, configured the way you need with a control surface thats a combination of the best mixers of the old days?

Does anyone think the market could bear a product like this? This clearly is not a home-studio product, but it would be my guess that there are quite a few people here who have touched the big toys at some point in their life.

What do you think?
 
I think I know what you're talking about, and I think they exist. Euphonics make digital mixers. They are VERY expensive, $300,000 or so, but I believe you can buy additional channel strips as needed. It seems to me though, that you could buy a sort of "morph" of the 2; any big board that has Midi Machine Control, could be adapted as a control surface for a DAW.
I know both Euphonics, and Neotek consoles offer that, as I'm sure do many other makes.

Cool Link
 
Yep, my idea is nothing new. Not even remotely new.

But I have yet to see one (which certainly could be my fault) that actually has every knob available for every channel, most of these units require "paging" or "flipping" between ganged channels. Such as 1-16, 17-32, aux/busses, etc.

You got what I'm suggesting though, very cool. Think control-surface to analog mixer :)

Michael Jones said:
I think I know what you're talking about, and I think they exist. Euphonics make digital mixers. They are VERY expensive, $300,000 or so, but I believe you can buy additional channel strips as needed. It seems to me though, that you could buy a sort of "morph" of the 2; any big board that has Midi Machine Control, could be adapted as a control surface for a DAW.
I know both Euphonics, and Neotek consoles offer that, as I'm sure do many other makes.

Cool Link
 
Though I've only seen some of the larger consoles, Neve, SSL, etc I've never actually worked one.

But I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I don't even like DAW's. None of them even come close to looking or feeling like any analog mixer I've ever used. Forget about computers. I've had a taste of that in the last week and I can tell that it's not for me.

I'm too set in my ways to change. Even though I will eventual move to digital recording it will be through an analog board.
 
frederic said:
Picture a digital control surface that looks like this:

http://www.4sync.com/rc/picdisplay.asp?itemkey=144

Yet controls warm analog bits :)
Yeah!
Or one that looks like this:
(attached)
I hear ya man. My little Yamaha O1V controls the faders and some other functions within my DAW, but how sweet would it be to have a console that could control nearly everything, with individual chanel strips on the board, coresponding to individual chanel strips on the DAW?
VERY!
 

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I completed an experiment over the weekend, which is why I posed the above question. The initial experiment of reading four encoders and two switches worked so well I've decided to expand the test to a full input channel. The four decoders directly (through TCP/IP) controlled a crude homemade analog parametric EQ, which had four knobs - low level fixed at 800hz, high level fixed at 12.5khz, sweepable mid (700-7khz) and mid level. Certainly not the best EQ design on the planet, but it illustrated that four knob "positions" could be sent through 100mb ethernet to a device that only pretends to have knobs :)

Hence the concept - fully automated digital console surface, managing a large box with warm analog bits in the background. According to my calculations, I could scan every knob, fader, switch on a 48ch x 8buss console (with six auxes) in about .078 seconds.

While my pathetic TCP/IP enabled EQ worked acceptably, building a large box of mixer bits of course is more challenging.

Anyway, placed an order today.

Ordered the CPU, memory and motherboard.
Ordered 21 digital encoders.
Ordered 12 lighted rectangular pushbuttons.
Ordered 2 10-bar LED graphs.
Ordered a double-digit .5" LED display.
Ordered all the circuitry, based on my current design.
Ordered various gears and sliders to build two linear encoders using 2 of the above digital encoders (mon level and main level)
Ordered a blank PCI interface card.

Now I have to figure out how to automate the main level slider/encoder. I have the circuitry designed, just haven't figured out the mechanicals. Obviously, a tiny stepper motor.

All encoders have a resolution of 30 detents per rotation, providing a digital value between 0-255.

Oh well, back to work for now.
 
frederic, i might have missed something, but from scanning your post, are you building yourself a digital mixer? or am i just seeing things?
-DAN
 
canwe say motor mix and dashboard? lol say it with me motor mix dsh board thats for 001 stuff thogh as far as dash board but the motor mix rocks and is only 1 /300 of the price your lookin at lol
 
From the way you're talking, it seems like you mean today's small-format digital mixers, which usually have some sort of single "channel strip" that can be used on any channel, in place of actual dedicated channel strips, and usually arrange all of the I/O channels in banks so they can be controlled by a small set of faders.

The good stuff still exists inlarge format consoles, though. Check out the AMEK music stuff(http://www.amek.com/products/musicrecording.html) for example. One of the most beautiful consoles I've seen in a long time is an AMS model I saw at NAMM a few years bacl, the 88r. Of course, it's actually a new analog console... http://www.ams-neve.com/prod/88r.htm
 
DanielJohn said:
frederic, i might have missed something, but from scanning your post, are you building yourself a digital mixer? or am i just seeing things?
-DAN

Naaaah, I'm building a "homebrew" digital control surface, with the intention of it looking, feeling, and behaving like a large-format analog console. Laaaaarge format.

No shared EQ knobs, no page up/page down, every channel whether it be input, tape return, aux, master etc, has its own knobs and switches.

The position of every knob and switch is then collected, and pumped out through a 10/100mb ethernet port, which in turn will control another device. My preliminary test with a poorly designed parametric EQ worked well. So we've completed 60% of the analog mixer "box" design already and have started building the digital control surface.

Since the control surface (and the analog mixer "box") speak ordinary TCP/IP over 10/100mb ethernet, this opens a lot of flexibility in capabilities. For example, since the control surface is seperate from the analog mixer, a PC could be on the same ethernet network, sync to the recording gear via RS422, midi and/or SMPTE, then monitor/record the fader/knob/switch movements in real time, then play it back to the analog mixer "box" for a fully automated mix. Or the control surface could control the analog mixer "box" directly. Or both :)
 
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