The new word on a Pre some of us were anticipating.

[jeap]

if you leave the tube drive down you generally get a sound like most other inexpensive solid state preamps.

the drive controls actually do work like drive controls on a guitar amp. fuzzes things up.

a real tube preamp is designed to be as clean as possible of course and the positive effects of overdriving the real tube amps are inaudible distortions. in other words one can overdrive a real tube circuit without hearing the distortion as distortion. you get a natural compression and dominant 2nd harmonic that fattens up the sound.

with the tube drives you can hear distortion right away. a very brittle high end fuzziness on vocals that gets extreme as you turn the knob.

useful?

 

[ozraves]

I agree. I've been studying tube guitar amps for years. I just can't see anything that could ever be positively come from a starved tube device. It takes some pretty nice iron to heat up a tube properly. The heavy iron is in the Marshall amps. The cheapest tube preamp I'm aware of is the Peavey VMP-2. I don't think it can be done for any less.

Steve
http://www.piemusic.com

 

[chessrock]

The cheapest tube preamp I'm aware of is the Peavey VMP-2. I don't think it can be done for any less.

Well, there is the Bellari Tube preamp, which is a "real tube preamp" by all accounts. It's just made with a lot of cheap parts. nwsoundman and I are in the process of working on a science project; just swapping a lot of the cheap parts for better ones. If all goes well, we should have ourselves a very inexpensive, usable, maybe even "pretty good" tube mic pre by the time all is done.

Total cost when you factor in all the parts and shipping will be less than $350.

 

[shadowfax]

im interested in what Gidge's thing is going to say when it reaches 6000 posts...

 

[chessparov]

I'm putting in my order NOW just to piss chessrock and Gidge off!
(just kidding)

Chris

 

[darrin_h2000]

If thats a good enough reason, go for it. My thing is that is is going to be perfect impedence match with the SP mics. and the analog electronics are supposed to be close to the Grace 101 (or so Ive heard), and the tube drive circut is going to be cleaner too. Unfortionately it will be a starved tube design. But what do you want for $170.00.

 

[chessrock]

Unfortionately it will be a starved tube design. But what do you want for $170.00.

Two audio buddies.

 

[Beathoven]

Sorry for my ignorance but what is a 'starved tube' and why does it matter???

Beathoven
http://www.nowhereradio.com/beathoven/singles

 

[darrin_h2000]

The starved tube design give you just a taste of the compression and tend to have some noise, alot of them are designed to be used with instruments as well so the distortion can get dirty, so for vocals leave that tube drive on a low setting for desired results.

You wouldnt belive how many posts Ive read from people that think that this gear is noisy because thay want to crank the tube drive all the way up.

I was Informed that this peice will have an insert built on to use a compressor. I have planned to put my dbx 263a deesser in that spot.

 

[chessparov]

darrin, I really was just kidding about my last comment.

Chances are excellent though it will sound very good as Alan puts much
time, thought, and effort into these designs.
As many microphones right now are of the "bright" variety to cut through
a mix, this pre could help mellow out the tone, especially on ballads IMHO.

Chris

 

[chessrock]

Sorry for my ignorance but what is a 'starved tube' and why does it matter???[/url]

It's a very cheap, gimmicky, "cutting-as-many-corners-as-possible" design that basically allows one to dial in a little "dirt" to the audio signal. It doesn't necessarily warm anything up by creating added harmonics when driven; what we normally associate as being a "fat" tone. Rather, it simply adds distortion to make the signal a little grittier.

It works great as an effect. Great for vocals if you want that distorted beasty boys-ish sound. Also sounds great on bass and guitar.

But it isn't a "real" tube design and doesn't deliver a "real" tube sound. That's why it is commonly refered to as "toob" or "tewb."

 

[darrin_h2000]

Now let me get this strait, The rolls /Belari design is considered to be the worst of all of this gear but it is actually a tube design. Getting this I would think that It would have to do with how the Hybrid technology was implemented.

If the Hybrid is an exelent pre as a solid state, then It will be better as a tubesweetened hybrid. Add to that better tube circutry and the you may have a hybrid that is a contender.

The Jury is still out on the SP pre. but Ive allready read some stuff that would indicate that It will be exellent.

 

[littledog]

It doesn't necessarily warm anything up by creating added harmonics when driven; what we normally associate as being a "fat" tone. Rather, it simply adds distortion to make the signal a little grittier.

And the difference between adding harmonics and distortion would be...?

For an excellent example of a hybrid tube design in a preamp that sounds wonderful, check out the Demeter H series.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of a lot of distortion (or should I say added harmonics?) at the preamp stage whether it's done by 60 volts or 600 volts.

 

[jeap]

if you turn the tube drive control all the way up on vocals you hear that the distortion is very harsh and brittle.

turning down the control slowly can show you that anything youre adding in to your signal is the same harsh and brittle sound.

i wouldnt hesitate to buy the new SP preamp and i think darrin should go for it. i wouldnt count on it warming up a bright mic but it may very well be the perfect match for the C1.

i use a tube mp and a blue tube and darrin is right that the drive can be used on instruments like keyboards or bass.

i used mackie and tube mp and blue tube on this and i think they work fine for the price and what they are:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1668&alid=-1

i want to get a tube mic maybe the tb1 and a real tube preamp cause i want to see for myself!

 

[chessrock]

Now let me get this strait, The rolls /Belari design is considered to be the worst of all of this gear but it is actually a tube design.

It isn't the design that is bad. It's basically the cheap parts that they use; namely the transformer, opamps, and to a certain extent, the tubes themselves. These are all fairly easily replaced, though, for only a little extra dough.

And before you dog the Bellari tube preamps, pay a visit to rec.audio.pro sometime and read some of Fletcher's comments on it. I kid you not on this, but Fletcher has repeatedly stated that the Bellari's design is a "real" tube preamp, superior to any of the crapola tewb gear on the market. He has even gone so far as to say "the Bellari rocks." and that's a direct quote if you can believe it. Scott Dorsey thinks it's a pretty good box, with a few modifications. None of the big dogs on that board like the ARTs or anything else with a starved plate design. They all pretty much hate starved plates.

 

[MrZekeMan]

If all goes well, we should have ourselves a very inexpensive, usable, maybe even "pretty good" tube mic pre by the time all is done.

Total cost when you factor in all the parts and shipping will be less than $350.

chess,

Be sure and post the results of your project. If you get good results, I wouldn't mind giving this a whirl.

Taylor

 

[jeap]

which bellari are we talking about here? the gold one with 2 channels? the silver one? the little silver one? i think youre talking about the gold one...

 

[darrin_h2000]

Actually the Bellari was being panned by Blue bear. I havent personally heard that design, But bruce said they are the worst shit you can get.

 

[drstawl]

>posts about mic preamps belong in the mic forum cause they are not effects they are an accessory for the mic.

They could also belong in "The Rack" Forum because many are rack-mount devices. As well: My pre also serves as a booster for the line-level signals that are produced by my synth, and includes an A/D converter for both channels.

Do you still think discussions of this pre should be posted exclusively in the Mic Forum?

 

[chessrock]

Actually the Bellari was being panned by Blue bear. I havent personally heard that design, But bruce said they are the worst shit you can get.

Correction, Mr. Blue Bear thinks that rolls is the worst shit you can get. And since Rolls owns Bellari, he is lumping the Bellari in with it in sort of a "guilt by association" thing.

But most of what Mr. Bear says is accurate regarding the differences between "real" tube designs and the "starved plate" design.

And with respect to what Little Dog had mentioned, it is accurate to say that however you look at it, distortion and/or added harmonics boil down to the same damn thing. However, the main difference between a "real" tube design and what we know of as the "faux" tube design also resides in other factors besides the nature of the tube coloration.

A true tube design will generally incorporate a transformer at the input. The quality of the transformer will have an enormous impact on the quality of sound, hence the popularity of the Jensen. The way the transformer interacts with the mic load . . . coupled with the amount of voltage to the tube . . . is largely responsible for what is often considered "vintage tube" sound.

Worthy of note: This particular sound is also known as much for what it doesn't sound like as for what it does sound like. Example: the lack of the sonic characteristics normally imparted by transistors in a solid state or hybrid design. People often say this (lack of transistor color) provides for a smoother, more rounded tone. The "gritty, dirty" sound of overdriven tubes we like so much on electric guitar isn't necessarily what comes to mind when you refer to the "real" tube sound. At least it shouldn't be.

A little knowlege, I will admit, is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. That said, I know very little about electronics, but I have been studying this end of things quite religiously as of late. And the knowlege I am passing on comes from qualified sources.

I will definitely be sharing some results of this in the mp3 clinic. I will be recording a band at the end of August. They've already reserved the time, and they are demanding a "vintage tube sound ala Revolver." So it looks like I'll have my first guinea pig.