The more I work with digital.....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Muckelroy
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Muckelroy

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Just started my Pro-Tools class. Wow. It's gonna be a LOONNNNNGGGG 3 years.

I will do my best to treat it like a tape machine, but it seems I will have LOTS of non-linear editing features that I will have to be ABLE to use.......which requires me using them. I feel like I'm betraying the analog world by using this stuff...........I feel so spoiled seeing every single waveform on a multi-colored GUI screen.

The professor made me laugh inside -- the first day of class, he said that he started off working with analog tape -- "yeah, we had a Sony DASH machine." It's ok, though. He's new, and he's at least HIGHLY QUALIFIED in teaching his field -- Pro Tools.

I will dance naked in the street once the JH-110 is repaired and re-installed, that's for damn sure!!

-callie-
 
Muckelroy said:
I feel like I'm betraying the analog world by using this stuff...........
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No, no, treat it like you're going undercover to the "other side", being the ultimate "insider". ;)
 
Muckelroy said:
I feel so spoiled seeing every single waveform ...
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Yeah! Unleash that power! There shall be no limits in what you can do. And, thus, Life Shall be BEAUTIFUL
:D
 
FALKEN said:
dude....

3 YEARS to learn PRO TOOLS????
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Well, only about 2 semesters of actually taking a CLASS on it.

The remainder of the time will be hands-on useage, some acoustics classes, some digital audio theory classes. But Pro-Tools will be the main multitrack medium for all our projects. (unless something absolutely crazy comes along within the next year or so that smokes Pro-Tools out of it's cave.)

We'll also be learning various mixdown mediums (including Sadie, DAT, and soon and very soon, 1/2"!!!!)
 
they gonna teach you how to do re-capping jobs and stuff?
 
Later on, I think there's an advanced electronics class that will actually involve component work, soldering, etc. So yeah. If not, hell I hope I can figure it out eventually if need be.
 
No youre not betraying anything. I grew up on analog - two inch sixteen track mother tapes mixed to 1/2 inch masters - what today can be done in a garage exceeds anything anyone dreamed of in analog just a few short years ago. Each world has iits' own benefits. What really matters isn't the technology, it's the ART- the music itself and the skill of the people who record it.

Like any good craftsman, learn how to use all the tools available as best you can.
 
When all else fails, remember Sgt Peppers was recorded on a four-track Studer - it's the ART that counts.

Have a good day.

Gary Ferguson
 
ClausRogge said:
What did he mean by "Dash"? Sorry but I don't understand ...
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Yeah I didn't either. I looked it up. From what I gleaned, apparently the D.A.S.H. was a reel to reel digital recorder in the 90s that was kind of like a DAT, but it was 8 tracks and could apparently be edited like a reel to reel. (A two-track DAT tape couldn't be spliced seamlessly.)

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
 
My thoughts are that most people simply don't have a good enough sound system to tell the difference between a quality analog recording and a digital one. So digital wins today because people for the most part are listening to music on mp3, computers, CD's in a car or other poor speaker systems that people think are ok.. like Bose. In the 70's, even as a kid I had a Fisher tube amp and huge JBL's with 15's in them and horn drivers out in the garage. Kids don't do that today. This is the age of convenience over quality.

I am a purist, and believe that music should be played in real time and the sound that comes from the instrument or amp should not be altered.... and I have reasons for this I won't get into here. I don't believe in ever manipulating a track once it has been recorded. If it's not good.. just re do it. Practice more, think of another way to do it.. but spending hours on a computer trying to fix things is not music.
Music is not meant to be perfect. There is a fine line between too loose and too precise. Quantizing rhythm tracks is an abomination and kills the life of a recording. If I even suspect this has taken place on a recording I lose interest. Some of the best sounding recordings were done on tape machines on 1960's jazz records. Natural takes... great room.. no processing. That's the way to do it in my opinion.
 
Astralography said:
My thoughts are that most people simply don't have a good enough sound system to tell the difference between a quality analog recording and a digital one. So digital wins today because people for the most part are listening to music on mp3, computers, CD's in a car or other poor speaker systems that people think are ok.. like Bose. In the 70's, even as a kid I had a Fisher tube amp and huge JBL's with 15's in them and horn drivers out in the garage. Kids don't do that today. This is the age of convenience over quality.

I am a purist, and believe that music should be played in real time and the sound that comes from the instrument or amp should not be altered.... and I have reasons for this I won't get into here. I don't believe in ever manipulating a track once it has been recorded. If it's not good.. just re do it. Practice more, think of another way to do it.. but spending hours on a computer trying to fix things is not music.
Music is not meant to be perfect. There is a fine line between too loose and too precise. Quantizing rhythm tracks is an abomination and kills the life of a recording. If I even suspect this has taken place on a recording I lose interest. Some of the best sounding recordings were done on tape machines on 1960's jazz records. Natural takes... great room.. no processing. That's the way to do it in my opinion.
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This is cool and all, and I dig the human feel too. But you have to realize that you're really no different than anyone else: each person has his own threshold with regards to how much the music can be "altered" when recorded. You just happen to be more on the unaltered side. (I am too, by the way.)

For instance:

Are you against EQing of the instruments?
Are you against adjusting the volume of the individual instruments? (When was the last time you were able to hear clear vocals over a drum kit in the same room?)

Many of those older "live in the room" recordings often involved tape splicing edits to create one great take from several.

Pretty much ever since the technology has been available to alter sounds, the vast majority of artists (of course there are some exceptions) have made use of it at some point.

I'm not saying that's good or bad; I'm just stating a fact.

And you also have to realize that the idea of "purist" changes throughout the years. I'm sure there were some people in the past who considered themselves purists and thought the electric guitar (or electric bass) were abominations.
 
gfergy said:
What really matters isn't the technology, it's the ART- the music itself and the skill of the people who record it.

Like any good craftsman, learn how to use all the tools available as best you can.
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Hmmm... I dunno...

51THpfJQpHL.webp

The first thing a good craftsman does is choose the right tools from the available tools. That's part of the skill. ;)

Actually everything matters.
 
Beck said:
Hmmm... I dunno...

View attachment 81598

The first thing a good craftsman does is choose the right tools from the available tools. That's part of the skill. ;)

Actually everything matters.
Click to expand...

Well ... if it's all that's available. :)

If I ever got super famous, I'd want to find a ridiculous, old Panasonic cassette recorder or something (not a 4-track!) and record a song on there. And the sole reason would just be to watch something that I got for 50 cents at a garage sale start selling for hundreds on ebay. :) That would be good, clean fun.
 
Seeing he started learning protools in 2006, maybe he just may have got a handle on it by now?

Alan.
 
This is cool and all, and I dig the human feel too. But you have to realize that you're really no different than anyone else: each person has his own threshold with regards to how much the music can be "altered" when recorded. You just happen to be more on the unaltered side. (I am too, by the way.)

For instance:

Are you against EQing of the instruments?
Are you against adjusting the volume of the individual instruments? (When was the last time you were able to hear clear vocals over a drum kit in the same room?)

Many of those older "live in the room" recordings often involved tape splicing edits to create one great take from several.

Pretty much ever since the technology has been available to alter sounds, the vast majority of artists (of course there are some exceptions) have made use of it at some point.

I'm not saying that's good or bad; I'm just stating a fact.

And you also have to realize that the idea of "purist" changes throughout the years. I'm sure there were some people in the past who considered themselves purists and thought the electric guitar (or electric bass) were abominations.
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I would say that I am different than many who are recording these days because I can play multiple instruments.. not just composing on "garage band". I'm different in that unlike most, I think the 80's were NOT good for music. I think the digital age has been extremely overrated.

I think the threshold is simple. Anything going down to tape needs to be played... not manipulated and copy and pasted into place. In the tape era.. even punching required that the part be played. So yes, I draw the line there. If an artist can't do it.. they need to go practice and come back tomorrow or in a few days or weeks or months or years.

I am against EQing of instruments. If you have the right mics, and a good room... and place them properly, you don't need EQ. It's actually amazing what you can do with just two ambient condenser mics in a proper room with good placement. If you get into multitracking, then yes, you do need to set levels ... and this helps keep your mixdown simple and uncomplicated. A mixdown should be just that. Levels. Cutting and splicing tape from several takes.. well, they still had to play it. This entire notion that one doesn't have to play it anymore, and just fix everything with pitch shifters etc... it's silly, and it's not creating better music, creativity, compositions or performance. All the great bands were also great live bands.

Purist does change.. but again.. whether upright bass or electric bass is used.. they both have to be played. Not just a DJ mixing prerecorded beats and sounds that were generated by a computer prior to that and altered from pre existing sounds. That's more Muzak than music.

Just my opinion and nothing more. Not trying to step on anyone's toes, just that this is an analog forum and it's our job to bring back the great stuff.
 
Astralography said:
Purist does change.. but again.. whether upright bass or electric bass is used.. they both have to be played. Not just a DJ mixing prerecorded beats and sounds that were generated by a computer prior to that and altered from pre existing sounds. That's more Muzak than music.
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True, but there is a lot of music that is much more than manipulating loops. It depends on the type of music. As recording artist/engineers we're in the business of transporting listeners to other places through music. Even a symphony recorded with a stereo pair directly to tape is still only our best effort to make the listener feel he is there, though he is not there. There's an art to making a person feel he is in a certain musical environment, and there are many techniques and tricks to accomplishing that which are quite unnatural.
 
Beck said:
Hmmm... I dunno...

View attachment 81598

The first thing a good craftsman does is choose the right tools from the available tools. That's part of the skill. ;)

Actually everything matters.
Click to expand...

I actually have one of those...er...my kids do. Its actually pretty awesome. You can get some nice feedback and distortion effects with that mic.

My kids really don't seem to appreciate my experiments with it in this accord though.

IIRC the D.A.S.H. format went all the way up to 48 tracks on 1/2" tape. Yes, it is just an open reel tape-based digital audio recorder...but with powerful onboard auto-locate, edit and sync features.
 
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