The 24 year collection of petty people

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Here's another for some feedback, I don't have a recording yet (this week sometime I'll sit down and get the piano done and hopefully have it up by the weekend). Let me know what you think and thanks! (I've got one more coming in a minute :P )

Update: Here's a very rough cut so you can get in idea of the music: View attachment 72655

It needs work, I just wrote the lyrics and music over the weekend. The framework for the piano is there, I just have to go in and play around with it.
Chris

The 24 year collection of petty people

Intro
I’ll try to keep you all anonymous
But as you know I’m not good with promises
I stick to my guns now, won’t shut my mouth anymore
And if you don’t like it, there’s the door.

Verse 1
Let’s start with you, Miss Paine, Miss Pain in the ass
Always thinking you’re so upper-class
You’re so far from it, working at CVS
Counting quarters doesn’t take much finesse

I’m not sure why you spread those vicious lies
Disguising old maids to be your malicious spies
But I stick to my guns now, and I’ll thank you graciously
Cause if not for you, I’d still be working there, too

Chorus
So thank you, thank you,
Thank you, thank you

Verse 2
For round two we’ve got you, Donny boy
Did you think a baby is just a little toy?
He’ll learn to be quiet when he cries himself to sleep
If not, lock him up, he won’t make a peep

This isolation really has helped me see
The destruction you’ve caused and to what degree
But I stick to my guns now, and I’ll thank you graciously
You’ve taught me just the man not to be

Chorus

Bridge
This list could go on and on
But I refuse to waste my energy
It’s gonna take some time
But I refuse to let you get the best of me
Cause in the end
When they hammer in the nails
I wanna say I am truly free

Verse 3
Next up is Narcissist Extraordinaire
Don’t bother pretending that you really care
You’re double life inflated your ego times three
I hope they pay you well for the loss of your dignity

Let’s wrap it up with someone I thought was a friend
It looks like these ten years have come to the end
Cuz I couldn’t sit back and watch you get beat and put down
I think I liked you better when you just slept with the whole town

Chorus 2
So thank you, thank you,
Thank you, thank you
For your dishonesty, your absency,
Toxicity, unloyalty
You all have been so kind, you see
Your heartless ways will set me free

Outro?
But I stick to my guns now and I’ll thank you all graciously
But, petty people like you, don’t deserve my company
 
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This tells a potent story and uses some clever wording to get the story out.

Not hearing any music, it is hard to really access this as a song (rather than as a poem) - however, I do have two general comments - if indeed you strive to be a "songwriter"

1. Normally, you want your title to be a lyrical "hook" - most often appearing in the chorus. In this case the title appears no where in the lyrics. Certainly the title is clever and made me want to read the lyrics - but I was somewhat disappointed that you did not utilize the clever phrase within the lyrics.

2. Normally you want the chorus to capture your audience (to "hook them"). In this case, (again without hearing a melody) the chorus seems rather one dimentional - a lot of thank you - but not much else.

That being said - you do a good job in the last chorus (Chorus 2) of explaining why you are thanking the "petty people"

It is hard to tell is this would be a good song - but I do think it is a good story.
 
Thank you for the feedback!!!

I appreciate the comments, however, I tend not to stick to "normally". That's what makes art so great, there are no rules! There's nothing to prove!

Saying that, I agree that normally, the title does match. In this case, it doesn't. Personally, I like songs with titles that have no relevance to the song (think Brand New's song I Will Play My Game Beneath The Spin Light from their album Deja Entendu). My other one, Somebody, is a case where it was just completely appropriate to use it as the title (however, I was debating a few others, including "I hate your half of my DNA" and "I rather eat rusted nails than ever see you again", but Somebody won that battle, I'm sure you can tell why haha). This one is just different.

And, yes, normally, the chorus hooks the audience (makes sense why it's also called the hook!), but honestly, I wouldn't even really consider my "chorus" a chorus at all. It's a repetition of words between versus as to not be completely monotonous. It's quick and to the point, but the end one pulls it together. There are plenty of songs without a true chorus, this may be one of them. It builds from beginning to end and I tried focusing more on the story being conveyed than a catchy chorus (originally the ending "chorus" was the actual chorus, but I felt that it just dragged the song out and took away from what was really supposed to be heard).

I completely agree with you though, traditionally, that's how it's all done. It's probably why I don't listen to the radio and tend to debate with music professors. I don't like being tied down!

I'm hoping to have rough cut of the music to post within the next few days, hopefully you'll have a better feel for it then!

Thanks for the input, though! It's very much appreciated!
 
I understand how you and other writers may choose not to follow the "normal" rules of songwriting. As you suggest, the beauty of art is that it allows the artist to express themselves however they choose - free of rules.

Like most things in life - it depends on what you seek to get from your artistic efforts. Many musicians/songwriters are content to pursue the muse purely as a hobby with no expectations of "commercial success" - others are driven to achieve some level of success (whatever that elusive term may mean)

Unfortunately, music/songwriting is one particular form of art that often does reguire a certain level of observation of norms/rules - which are dictated by publishers, record lable executives, producers, artis looking for material, the music buyng public, etc. While there certainly are any number of artists who have achieved some level of "success" by choosing not to write hooks, etc. etc - the majority of people who have found success as songwriters (vs. performing artists) have focused on many of the standard "rules" of the craft.

I work hard to get published and placed - thus I tend to look at how other writers implement the craft. I have been published and placed several times (although I've also been rejects dozens of times) and do receive BMI checks, etc. - I have spent untold hours carefully disecting what I consider the finest songwriters, in an attemp to improve my craft - but naturally, that in no way qualifies my opinion over anyone else's. I do however, think that there is much that can be learned by listening to other writers - and I would suggest you are doing yourself no favors by choosing not to listen to the radio, etc.

That all being said - I normally do not even bother to comment on other people's lyrics on this site since 1) many are simply not very good and 2) who am I to judge.

However, I really thought both of your sets of lyrics had promise and showed a clever command of words (and obviously a very deep angst - which can be a very effective muse) - so I did offer a rare opinion.

Whatever your goal - whatever your reason to write - I wish you well
 
Interesting theme for a song - revenge & splenetics can be fascinating but back story becomes all the more important.
There are some problems I have with some false rhymes and some slightly clunky word use as follows

The 24 year collection of petty people

Intro
I’ll try to keep you all anonymous
But as you know I’m not good with promises
I stick to my guns now, won’t shut my mouth anymore
And if you don’t like it, there’s the door.

Verse 1
Let’s start with you, Miss Paine, Miss Pain in the ass where I live it'd be arse & class I also think the link. is too obvious
Always thinking you’re so upper-class
You’re so far from it, working at CVS
Counting quarters doesn’t take much finesse Is this demeaning to people who do such a job in good faith?
I’m not sure why you spread those vicious lies
Disguising old maids to be your malicious spies doesn't really work
But I stick to my guns now, and I’ll thank you graciously But you haven't been gracious
Cause if not for you, I’d still be working there, too

Chorus
So thank you, thank you,
Thank you, thank you

Verse 2
For round two we’ve got you, Donny boy
Did you thank a baby is just a little toy? Think?
He’ll learn to be quiet when he cries himself to sleep Well, there's a strong argument for that process is developing sleep habits
If not, lock him up, he won’t make a peep

This isolation really has helped me see
The destruction you’ve caused and to what degree
But I stick to my guns now, and I’ll thank you graciously
You’ve taught me just the man not to be Good, Good stuff - though the gracious is still wrong

Chorus

Bridge
This list could go on and on
But I refuse to waste my energy
It’s gonna take some time
But I refuse to let you get the best of me don't overuse a strong word - it weakens it
Cause in the end
When they hammer in the nails
I wanna say I am truly free

Verse 3
Next up is Narcissist Extraordinaire
Don’t bother pretending that you really care
You’re double life inflated your ego times three
I hope they pay you well for the loss of your dignity interesting but needs background

Let’s wrap it up with someone I thought was a friend
It looks like these ten years have come to the end
Cuz I couldn’t sit back and watch you get beat and put down
I think I liked you better when you just slept with the whole town
This last one paints you in a bad light - rejecting someone because they've fallen - you don't explain the braek - just that you don't like the new relationship.

Chorus 2
So thank you, thank you,
Thank you, thank you
For your dishonesty, your absency,Absency? Really?
Toxicity, unloyalty DISloyalty is the correct term.that one's a clunker!
You all have been so kind, you see
Your heartless ways will set me free shouldn't it be have?

Outro?
But I stick to my guns now and I’ll thank you all graciously
But, petty people like you, don’t deserve my company
The BIG issue is that the revenge, smack down session is petty of itself & doesn't lift you. I think you have some interesting ideas but it smacks of self pity & paranoia. Now, IF it's meant to expose that you're likely to have 1/2 he world miss any irony you've attempted.
Keep trying & tweaking becasue you do have some interesting ideas and a handle on language.
 
Xdrummer, thank you very much, honestly. After reading your posts last night I sat down and put together a (VERY) rough cut, so you can at least get an idea of the music.
Check it out here: View attachment 72653

You've definitely got me thinking, and I think you're right that it would be a good idea to have a better hook. I'll have to go in and revise the lyrics, I don't want the song to end up being 7 minutes long, but I am tending to agree with you more and more.

Mainstream and fame isn't something I'm directly after, most musicians I enjoy aren't. If they are now, it's only because of a fan following that brought them to another level. But, a hook isn't a bad idea at all.

I really appreciate your advice and kind words, as I'm still finding my way through this. I've never been a fan of rules or structure, but... there is a time and place for everything. Thanks again.
Chris
 
Hi Ray,

I've never explained my lyrics or thought process or anything like that before, nor felt the need to, but I did feel a twinge of...eh, how do I put it? I guess I felt a bit misunderstood. Normally, I wouldn't care, but this song is extremely personal for me (you'll see why when you get to the second verse). I'll try to go through some of your comments and see if I can clear things up a little. Okay, here goes, and don't worry, I'm not on the defensive!

"Interesting theme for a song - revenge & splenetics can be fascinating but back story becomes all the more important." With all due respect, I'm thinking you missed the point. It's not about revenge at all, really. It's about how I've learned from these people. So, maybe thanking them graciously is slightly sarcastic to a degree, it really is the truth. Does it still hurt? Yes. Have the wounds all healed? No. This is how I process that and come to terms with it.

Ok, I'll start at the top. Anonymous and promises. I like it, and the way I sing it, it's a near rhyme. So it's not changing. I know it's hard with just a set a words, I understand that, but try not to read it as a poem.

Let’s start with you, Miss Paine, Miss Pain in the ass where I live it'd be arse & class I also think the link. is too obvious. I'm in the states, ass and class work just fine. The girls last name was Paine and she was a pain in the ass. She was one of the most snobbish, delusional women I had ever met in my life who didn't like that I was "over-ranking" her (at CVS... I mean, come on, it's not like I was being promoted to CEO) so she got me fired. She had people I thought were my friends lie for her. I was devastated at first, but it changed my life because I landed a job, at 20, with my own office, salary, benefits, 401(k). She thought she was out to get me, but she made things so much better for me. So, yes, I am gracious. Karma works that way. Do I still think she's a bitch? Yes. And will it offend people who work at the drugstore in good faith? Maybe. I don't really care. I worked there for 5 years, and it is a very simplistic job. Anyone can get behind a register and cash people out. And anyone who does the job will tell you the same thing, and I can probably say that 90% of them hate their job. So, if anything, they'd probably agree with me. For some reason everyone has this idea of being PC, but in reality, no one is. The media is so far from PC, usually by trying TO be PC. So, I'm not worried about offending someone. Amanda Palmer wrote a song called Oasis about being raped and having an abortion and getting over it and moving on with her life. She set it to a major scale and people were offended. She replied, basically, with "would they like it better if I put it to really sad depressing chords?" Offending people is the last thing on my mind!

Yes, thank was supposed to be think, obviously a typo, I'll go in and correct that. My fingers don't always keep up with my brain :P

Back-story for that verse, Don is my father. Without getting into details, he was extremely abusive, physically and mentally. After getting beat, specifically from 3-5, I would cry and cry and end up locked in my room for a day or two, so, I think it's appropriate. And I also don't think it helped me develop any great sleep habits, as I rarely sleep. So, as much as I hate the man, yea, I've got something to thank him for. Sometimes "forgiveness" isn't forgiving the person, its forgiving the situation. I look at it this way, he was a fuck up, but he did what he did and nothing will change it, so I've come to terms with forgiving that it happened by making a life lesson out of it (not being like him).

I agree with you, I need to only use refuse once, as it is a powerful word. I don't want it diminished. Point well taken.

Verse 3, Mr. Narcissist Extraordinaire. Think about having a double life that could be degrading and eat your dignity alive. He's in gay ****! Lying on his back with his feet high in the air getting spit in the face. He did it for the attention, to feed his already ever growing ego. I don't need people like that in my life. You know the type: everything's always gotta be about them. They don't talk with you, they talk TO you.

Second part of verse 3, this friend of mine didn't want my advice when I said to get out of an abusive relationship (seeing as I know how it can affect her and her SON). Instead she stayed with him and shut me out. I tried and tried, but sometimes people have to figure things out on their own (that would be why I'm thanking her. You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink). And it's true, I liked it better when she slept around and wasn't tied down to one guy, she was much happier. She'd be happier not getting slapped around. If I could make this a ten minute song, I would totally go into more detail about all of these people, but that would get boring.

As far as the clunkers/words that aren't in the dictionary... Beyonce can make "bootylicious" a word, but I can't use absency for the sake of art? Disloyalty may be the proper way to use the word, but I've just used dishonesty, do I want to use "dis" twice? If you've got idea's I'm definitely open for them.

And, yes, these people will set me free, they haven't yet, or I wouldn't be writing this song. Obviously, though I can see how each one has taught me a lesson in some way or another, I'd be lying if I said that it didn't affect me. One day I'll look back and it'll be said and done, but in the moment, it's going to take some time.

Maybe that will clear things up a bit. And who knows, maybe I am the petty one here! After all, I am my own worst enemy.

Thanks for your input.
Chris
 
Chris,
Heaps of background but it's not in the song - not even hinted at. I read that you've written vignettes about painful aspects of your life. You're position is that you thank those folk for strengthening you when they felt they were diminishing you. And that you thank them with good grace. BUT I don't read it that way.
You have a series of character assassinations (all of which could be quite accurate) and essays on aspects of your development.
In the song you are brutal and give no quarter whilst sparing the reader the detail; there is no grace, no acceptance or understanding in the way you deal with them in the writing.
You say you thank them graciously but it isn't apparent in the lyric.
The "You made me what I am & I'm glad of that" & "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger" theme is a good one and has been done well in the past. Ian Hunter's Irene Wilde from All American Alien Boy is a classic of the genre but there are many in that class. "If you hadn't messed me up I'd still be there" etc.
Bootilicious is silly, it's meant to be silly & isn't being used to convey angst or pain. Creating words is how Shakespear managed to build our language but the couple you've chosen are to facilitate a rhyme and, well I don't know about unloyalty but aliteration can be a great thing within a line so dis wouldn't have gone amiss. My point is that they don't advance your argument or ornament your phrases. To me they clunk which is a distraction from the good stuff you've written.
Lyrics as personal as you've shared are painful to write and often painful to read if we can empathize or have had similar experiences. They also take on a life of their own so that the writer often becomes unwilling to have them altered/dissected/critiqued.
Look, in terms of falling from grace reread your last line. It's not acceptance or thanks; it's a last word in an argument.
I'm sure writing and singing the lines was/is cathartic - that's great. If you can communicate that catharsis it'd be fabulous but I'm commenting on the lyrics you offered for scrutiny.
 
I understand, and I do see what you mean... Looks like it's back to the drawing boards for me. Hopefully I'll have an update soon. I'll admit, I can be stubborn, but I am open to the advice and will see what I can do to strengthen it with more background information. Or just start back at square one.
Thanks again,
Chris
 
Hi, I think you have some worthy subject matter here. Personally, I don't think you have communicated it in an effective manner which will draw a listener in effectively. Yes there are a few neat phrases, but the wording and phrasing gets a bit contrived. It’s got angst which I feel would be better channelled into something which comes across less bitter on a personal level. It’s a fine line, expressing such aspects of life and relationships and it takes a lot of careful phrasing of lines to be able to impart that same set of circumstances and feeling in a way that people feel compelled to assimilate and empathise with, without it being uncomfortable. Obviously this is just in my opinion which you can disregard as you wish, but hey, you might sing it with a pinch of salt and a chuckle and it may come across totally different to how I’m feeling it at this present time. I think Ray covered some valid points in respect of its execution.

Regards

Tim
 
Chris,
Back to revision rather than the drawing board. I think you have the makings of a good lyricist but such a personal narrative is hard to step back from and view objectively.
I have a fair idea of what you're aiming for and, with some work, you'll get there.
I think the 1st change I'd make would be to find a replacement for and I’ll thank you graciously. Maybe something that is similar but more realistic like "I'll thank you, eventually" where you hint that you will use the trials to stregthen you.
A change like that would allow you to be bitter, brutal & cathartic (all good things) and put things in a different perspective.
A few tweaks to the scan of thinsg like changing I hope they pay you well for the loss of your dignity to "I hope they pay you well for your loss of dignity" would tighten things up aswell.
My point, in the end, is don't waste all of the energy expended so far - work on what you've done and make it communicate.
Lennon's Mother was Primal Scream therapy in musical form - it was painful for evryone BUT it was/is also GREAT. It communicates still - & I'm sure it did its number for him too.
You & It are worth the effort.
 
Hey Ray,

I love the idea, I'll thank you, eventually.... Actually, I just changed it. I think it works a thousand times better.

And you're right on the line about the dignity. It's weird, because when I wrote it it came out that way, but when I play and sing it, it has been the line you recommended. So we're definitely on the same page there. I actually think I'm going to keep the first 2 parts and ditch the entire third, or at least revise it. You're right, the part about the friend in an abusive relationship...it makes me look like a dick. So, maybe I'll stick with the porno asshole, or come up with another entirely. And also change the title. It really isn't a large collection, it's only a handful of people. Any ideas on the title? I've got to think about that.

Thanks again, Ray.
Chris
 
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