That Steve Albini Drum sound

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ionric

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Hello all, I'm just about to do some recording with my band and I'm after getting a nice room sound for the drumkit. I'm trying to stray away from the close-mic technique that I have always used and I sort of want to go after the Steve Albini signature sound. If you have heard anything recorded by him you'll know what I mean.

I need some ideas on what mics might be good to use (at the moment I only have dynamic mics and I'm gonna have to hire some condenser or ribbons).

Does anyone know what mics he actually uses or close approxiamtions?

Thanks for your time

Ionric.
 
Check out his board at www.electrical.com. In the Intern's Corner forum, there are some postings of drum setups there, specifically Don Cabellero (American Don) and Neurosis . He uses Josephson e22s on toms (top and bottom), room mics taped to the floor (usually Earthworks, I think), mics inside the kick (sometimes a AKG D112) and on the batter side (with the batter side run through a gate to "duck" it), overheads (sometimes Coles 4038 or Royer 112). All of this is subject to change from setup to setup, but I do believe he said that he uses the Josephsons in every session he does. Poke around on his site and you'll learn a lot about the stuff he does. Did I mention that he has a top knotch facility, as well?

I hope I don't get in trouble for plugging his site and forum on this board.
 
Yeah electrical is a pretty cool board however not quite as comprehensive as this one. It's a much narrower social scene over there. I like the larger variety of folks that this board has to offer.
 
Be Loveless said:
Yeah electrical is a pretty cool board however not quite as comprehensive as this one. It's a much narrower social scene over there. I like the larger variety of folks that this board has to offer.
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I agree, it is a lot more narrow. I'm not even a member; I just read it a lot. It's far more slow-moving than this board, as well. There are some helpful things to be read there, though, like Greg's tech journal and stuff of that variety.
 
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I would try and get away with using your existing mikes rather than hiring any and work some stuff out.

Then if you really want that Steve Albini sound you could just hire Steve Albini for a day and make sure you have practiced everything really well. Steve Albini is not that expensive and in my opinion, the best way of getting a Steve Albini sound is to hire a Steve Albini. YMMV of course.

love

Freya
 
The most realistic approach would be to go for the general idea and philosophy behind how he does things . . . rather than focusing on the exact model of microphone or the precise coordinate of where they're placed, etc.

The idea is to make sure the instrument sounds great, and record it in a large and open room. Use fairly neutral and accurate-sounding mics; (I don't think you'll see Albini using many fancy, highly-colored tube mics or anything). And place them so you get a good representation of how they sound in the room at that moment in time. Think as if you're "documenting" the sound of the drums rather than characterizing them, if that makes any sense.

I think it's his basic approach and philosophies, more than anything, that make his records sound the way they do, rather than any microphone setup. And if you listen to his records, it's pretty obvious that he does a pretty decent job of not having a "signature sound." And that a lack of any personal stamp probably is his signature, ironically enough. At least that's what I'm sure he strives for.
 
chessrock said:
I think it's his basic approach and philosophies, more than anything, that make his records sound the way they do, rather than any microphone setup. And if you listen to his records, it's pretty obvious that he does a pretty decent job of not having a "signature sound." And that a lack of any personal stamp probably is his signature, ironically enough. At least that's what I'm sure he strives for.
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Well said, chessrock, well said.
 
Use a lot of mics and make sure that they are not in phase with each other.
 
a friend of mine acutally got a drum micing demonstration from the man himself when he was at school... I remember he told me that he didnt use overheads... instead he placed the two mics pointing AT the kit, not down. His rationale was that nobody ever hears a drum kit from above. That and taping mics all over the floor. Cant remember all the details.. sorry
 
I dug the stuff on the don caballero sessions. I really like the don caballero drum
sounds.
 
Steve Albini Drum Sound

Don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember hearing that he will only record on tape, disliking the sound of digital recording or something??? :confused: Oh, well, I would think that having warm tape sound might add something if not color and feel to a drum sound. All the drums on Nirvana's "In Utero" album sound awesome!!!! I guess too that it's a lot of trial and error once you find a good combo of things, like mics, room space, recording media. Good luck!!!! :cool:
 
He does record only to tape, but it has nothing to do with the sound of digital vs. the sound of analog. He's said many times that he finds digital recording a perfectly practical medium for things that come and go, such as video game soundtracks or movie audio, but he sees music as a work of art, and doesn't think that its the best medium for preserving music. He prefers analog because, as digital storage mediums evolve and become outdated, analog stays the same. As he put it, he can take a tape real recorded in the 1930s and, provided that its been properly cared for, play it back exactly as it was recorded. Agree, or disagree...whatever. If it were about the sound of digital, then he wouldn't use the digital processers that he does.

I would have to say I agree with Chess in that Albini's signature sound is a lack of said signature sound. However, I think that you can often pick out his drum sound because it sounds roomy and "real". So you might say that that is his signature sound.

mmistudent said:
a friend of mine acutally got a drum micing demonstration from the man himself when he was at school... I remember he told me that he didnt use overheads... instead he placed the two mics pointing AT the kit, not down. His rationale was that nobody ever hears a drum kit from above. That and taping mics all over the floor. Cant remember all the details.. sorry
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Might this have been him using a M-S setup on the drums? They seem to be big M-S fans at Electrical.
 
Albini on the E22 microphone:

Over the years, I have developed a fondness for using small diaphragm condenser mics on drums, usually in top-and-bottom pairs. Buying my favorite discontinued models second hand left me with a number of problems related to the differences in condition between individual mics, and in 199-something, I decided to get a set of new mics that would age together and presumably by more consistent. Having looked at every available option, I found there was no current production mic that would fit the bill. Current small diaphragm mics all had one problem or another in the uses I would put them to, and in a technical culture becoming geared toward cheaper, less critical semi-professional products, I didn't see anything on the horizon that would be of use.

I needed a microphone for recording drums. Actually, I needed a half-dozen of them, but nobody made one. I tried to get some of the bigger microphone companies interested in making me a microphone, but they were all busy with in-ear monitors or some hideous black chrome potato. I called David (Josephson), whose microphones I had been impressed by, and suggested the project to him. He saw the utility of a small-diaphragm, side firing condenser mic, and we began collaborating. The collaboration consisted of me telling David what to build, him building something else entirely, and me rejecting it. This continued until he made the e22S, at which point he hit a home run. It's a good things too, because we both were too tired to play any more.

The e22S microphone has been in daily use in our studio since 1994. I say daily with no exaggeration, because these mics are in use on every session.

They are perfect for drums. They are great on electric guitar amplifiers. They are a first choice for acoustic instruments. They can handle phenomenal SPL. The output transformer is a custom wound wide bandwidth Lundahl device, making these mics suitable for use into any preamplifier on the planet, new or old. You can pound nails with them.

While designing the e22S, David worked from a set of requirements we gave him, which constituted all I wanted from a microphone:

1. A physical profile that allows me to put it anywhere -- even on drums in a kit with a tight layout without it being in the way.

2. Excellent sound quality

3. Cardioid polar response with minimal lobing across the frequency spectrum, and modest, predictable proximity boost.

4. No unexpected behavior when used into preamps with transformer or electronic inputs.

5. Must be able to handle high SPL without distortion, either in its internal electronics or by overloading mic preamps.

6. Must not require any special mounting hardware -- cylindrical body of a common size to fit normal microphone clips.

7. Must be durable. Heavy brass housing should be able to withstand repeated blows from frustrated drummer or dropping by clumsy engineer.

8. I must get six of them, and they have to sound similar.

9. There is no number nine.

The specific need addressed by the e22S was drum kit recording, and the mics are used in that capacity nearly every day, but once they were in our hands, they quickly became a favorite mic for many instruments, including acoustic guitar, mandolin, banjo, guitar amplifiers, organ and horns. The e22S is easily the most versatile microphone in our cabinet.

On loud sounds like drums and guitar cabinets, the 609 head amplifier delivers a crisp, clear signal that is free of distortion, at a level that doesn't require an external pad to prevent distortion.

The output transformer provides critically accurate balancing, wide bandwidth and excellent isolation of the electronics, while presenting a comfortable load to the input of the mic amp. Some transformerless electronic output stages can cause overload or distortion by presenting a virtual short circuit to the input transformer of the preamp, unless build-out resistors are used. Build-out resistance makes the low output impedance irrelevant, and acts as a potential noise source.

Trying to describe a microphone's sound in words always makes me feel ridiculous, like a novice wine taster: "this has...oak? And, um, 'top notes' of barley? Citrus? I mean it's spicy, but... tannins? Is that it? Tannins?" I'd prefer to recommend the e22S on it's merits as I see them.

These are good mics worthy of being called "general purpose" instrument mics. They are reliable, physically sturdy, sound consistently good and induce no electronic anomalies. I would not hesitate to use them on any instrument, in harms' way if necessary, in any studio, under any conditions. They have made my life easier, and in the process become the most popular mics in our studio.
~ steve albini ~ Electrical Audio ~ Chicago, Illinois

Only 1200 bucks each, and he uses 2 per tom. :) OUCH!
 
If you want an Albini-esque sound on drums you have to stick to a few "rules":

1.) Room mics on omni
2.) Large rooms
3.) Don't overproduce or overmix
4.) Go easy on the compression during mixing
5.) While you're at it, go easy on the EQ as well
6.) Aim for tape compression (or approximation) on kick, snare and toms
7.) Go easy on the digital reverb too
8.) Don't use SM57's except maybe for snare

Overall Albini's sound is less the gear he has and more the approach he uses. His drum sounds have been pretty consistent since the 1990's, even though the equipment at his disposal has changed. However, I believe his drum sound is ultimately the product of his entire mix and aesthetic towards recording across the board--not just on the drums.
 
chessrock said:
The most realistic approach would be to go for the general idea and philosophy behind how he does things . . . rather than focusing on the exact model of microphone or the precise coordinate of where they're placed, etc.
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Bingo!

And if you listen to his records, it's pretty obvious that he does a pretty decent job of not having a "signature sound." And that a lack of any personal stamp probably is his signature, ironically enough. At least that's what I'm sure he strives for.
Click to expand...

That's what Albini claims, but I don't buy it. His drum sound is his signature sound. He'll swear that it's not, but it is. I can spot Albini-recorded drums in about 2 seconds. And I'm rarely, if ever, wrong about it. He definately has a sound.
 
blue turtle, you said: "All the drums on Nirvana's "In Utero" album sound awesome!!!!"
i am a tolerant man but to say that the drums on In Utero sound awesome with that many exclamation points is crazy!!!! the kick sounds like rice paper. personally i don't even like Nirvana/Grohl that much but listen to In Utero and then listen to Nevermind back to back. i know Nevermind is a little to polished and overproduced and that Nirvana is grungy but common, which drums sound better? If you use In Utero as your reference you will sound like shit. try Siamese Dream or Melancholly era Smashing Pumpkins for good drums from the 90s
 
Did I say Awesome???

Ummmm, maybe I meant they sound just fine??? :confused: But, I do agree that Nevermind's drum sounds are better, in fact if memory serves me, and it usually doesn't, Bleach has the best drum sounds of the three!!!!
 
arpodthegreat said:
...listen to In Utero and then listen to Nevermind back to back. i know Nevermind is a little to polished and overproduced and that Nirvana is grungy but common, which drums sound better?
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In Utero. They sound like drums in a room. That's what I like. Nevermind sounds like they used triggered samples. It's a matter of taste, though. Some people think Phil Collins' drums sound like the bomb.
 
Im a huge fan of Albini's technique, the sounds he gets, and his general asthetic when it comes to pretty much everything. His drums sound so good because a vast majority of the bands he records need that kind of sound. He has a deep understanding of the style of music he tends to record. Hell, he had a huge hand in establishing the genre musically speaking. Those kinds of bands I think are best complimented with simplicity, and especially when the mix sounds like you're in their practice space with them. Also, we should all take a cue from Albini's take on compression. Listen to the Pixies Surfer Rosa for example. There's a high degree of real dynamics to it. The quiet parts are actually quiet, and I catch myself having to turn it up to hear certain things.

Then again, this roomy drum thing we're talking about still owes a huge debt to people like Andy Johns.

Simple, simple, simple. Tweak the source before tweaking anything.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
If you want an Albini-esque sound on drums you have to stick to a few "rules":
Click to expand...

This whole thread makes me laugh out loud.

Steve Albini is not a recording engineer and never should have started passing himself off as one. He's a just a very smart guy who knows how to fool people, plain and simple.

Now that he's got access to good microphones, good boards and good tape machines he has stopped measuring between microphones. No lie. He used to MEASURE between microphones to try to sculpt the sound. He has no ear, and has to reduce everything to a physics problem because that's something he can understand.

I agree that the drums on his records sound good. But that's not his fault. It's the drummer. A good drummer will sound good recorded on a cassette 4 track, and Steve Albini stopped letting his cloth ears get in the way a decade or so ago.

He saw an opportunity to bilk a supremely superstitious and terminally insecure profession --- the recording industry --- laid down a good rap, and got thru the door as a 'recording engineer'. The rest was easy.
 
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