temp room treatments for "mud"???

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e-dog

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I apparently posted this in the wrong area, so, re-post:

This is a total newbie question, as I'm just now figuring out the "the room" actually MATTERS.

Problem: My mixes always sound muddy and *worse* entirely lacking high-end beyond, say 6-9kHz...

Through a long process of equipment upgrades, equalizing and compressing the crap out of mixes, re-mixing, equalizing and compressing the crap out
of individual tracks, remixing, using NO eq or compression, remixing, remixing mono, doing more recording, upgrading more equipment, and on and on...

I think I FINALLY found the problem: the room.

I get alot of excess "mud" and "boxiness" down in the 150Hz to 250Hz range, plus the same around 400Hz to 500Hz.. while I CAN fix this with eq, it tends to rob a good deal of the sonic character from (acoustic and vocal) tracks and makes everything sound excessively thin, especiallly with the anemic top-end.

I generally close-mic to avoid room nosie which also causes an excess of proximity effect on some tracks, but that seems more in the 700Hz range on my stuff..
So, I'm kinda screwed.
Everything has that "recorded in a bedroom" sound, regardless of the post-processing, except with EXTREME (-ly useless) eq...

I've been searching the net and this forum for stuff..
some links for those new to the subject:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showth...ustic+treatment

QUESTION...
Has anyone had success with clearing up "muddiness" with treatments that are temporary, small, and could be set up/taken down on a daily basis if necessary??
Quick fixes, for a small corner of a living room, for instance... like a fiberglass panel trap on a stand with wheels or something?

Or, more importantly, would treating the immediate area around the mic/source help, or is it a total waste of time if treating the whole room isn't an option (too big, too cluttered, temporary quarters)...

I'm pretty sure I have excess high-freq diffusion and need some low-freq absorption... but I'm just guessing.

Thoughts, comments??

Thanks in advance.



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Unfortunately, those are very common problems. To fix them, you need broadband bass control. Again, unfortunately, broadband bass control and 'small' don't go together.

You simply need some thickness and square footage straddling the room corners. You can certainly make some that are on wheels that can roll in and out. You can also just make a series of 2'x4' framed 4" absorbers and use them across the room corners when you need to and put them somewhere else when not desired.

The other thing you'll want to address is your refleciton points on the side walls (same idea but 2" is sufficient here) and the wall behind the mix position.

A couple boxes of OC703 or mineral wool, some 1x4, and a long weekend would probably get you a long way.
 
thanks

Yeah, I was thinking I would try that...

Would a partial fix help, as opposed to treating the entire room?

I think the Ethan Winer site said 30% wall coverage was necessary...

Also, if I go the route of putting the fiber glass in an enclosed plywood box, does the thickness of the plywood (or wood) matter at all?

Are there differences in absorption/diffusion with different thicknesses?
like 1/4" compared to 1" will provide more/less...

also, 4" thick (not floor-to-ceiling) is enough to help for corners?

thanks again.



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>>Would a partial fix help, as opposed to treating the entire room?

You don't want to treat the entire room - no. But, you do still need broadband bass control. Not sure how big the room is to know how much.

>>I think the Ethan Winer site said 30% wall coverage was necessary...

Depends on what you're doing in the room. Sounds like you're doing both tracking and mixing in the same room. This is tough because the acoustical design for the 2 things are very, very different.

>>Also, if I go the route of putting the fiber glass in an enclosed plywood box, does the thickness of the plywood (or wood) matter at all?

Yes. It matters a lot. The depth of the cavity and the mass of the front panel are the 2 things that control where the absorber tunes to. Also remember that these are much narrower in nature in terms of what they absorb - maybe 1 octave. To do the whole bass spectrum you'll need 2-3 different tunings at least. Depending on the size of the room, FSK faced soft absorbtion might be a better solution.

>>Are there differences in absorption/diffusion with different thicknesses?
like 1/4" compared to 1" will provide more/less...

Yes. In diffusion, the size of the cavity (width and depth) will determine what frequencies are accurately diffused and which are basically unchanged. In absorbtion, absolutely. The 3 things that determine how low a soft broadband absorber will be effective are:

- Thickness
- Density
- Distance from the leading face to the hard boundary (wall)


>>also, 4" thick (not floor-to-ceiling) is enough to help for corners?

For bass control, you just need surface area - that's all there is too it. You can put up 24" thick absorbers if you want but if they're only 1 sq ft of area, they won't do much - sorry.

Consider using the horizontal corners across the top of the room where the wall meets the ceiling. Straddling those corners with 4" of 8lb mineral wool - some faced with FSK, will give you a good chunk of bass control at a relatively reasonable cost and not take up any floorspace.

Bryan
 
thanks

Very thorough reply.

Thanks for all the information.

Looks like I've got quite a bit more research to do.


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Just jumping in, mid-thread, but if you posted a diagram (with some dimensions) of your room... Maybe we could pick at it.... Just to get a better idea of what space you're working with...

Good luck...
 
bpape said:
Consider using the horizontal corners across the top of the room where the wall meets the ceiling. Straddling those corners with 4" of 8lb mineral wool - some faced with FSK, will give you a good chunk of bass control at a relatively reasonable cost and not take up any floorspace.
Bryan
Click to expand...
Don't mean to hi-jack the thread, . . But, I;m also trying to figure the best treatment for a room on a budget. Bryan~ Would you happen to have a photo or diagram showing how it looks when you hang a broadband absorber straddling a corner? :)

Also, if your budget could only afford placing a few (2' x 4') 4" thick bass traps in the corners, . . will they be more effective placed in the middle of the corners or higher-up against the ceiling?
 
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The answer to most of those questions is 'try it and see'. Tuning a room is like tuning an instrument. You can't ask how many times do I turn the peg before it will be a D.

I was able to significantly knock down the early reflections in my room, 16'x30'x8' by placing (10) 2'x4'x1" 703 absorbers on one long wall and one short wall. Just start putting some stuff up and see if it helps.
 
Well, you clould mount a bass trap on a mic stand in the corner and take it away when you aren't recording. It might not qualify as 'small' but it is something where you could set up four of them in fifteen minutes or so and them take them down afterward. Storage the rest of the time would take up a big part of a closet or a chunk of space in the garage.
 
If you can get it up in the tri-corner (where the 2 walls and ceiling meet), that will give you the best bang for the buck. Try to spread things out if you're on a limited budget.

For example, 2 - 3 packs of 4" mineral wool is relatively resonably priced. Put 1 in each upper tri corner. Then, look at where you're having FR issues and which dimensions. From there, start looking at where you can put 2 on the horizontal wall/ceiling corner to best address those issues (middle of the front wall/ceiling? Middle of the side wall/ceiliing? 1/3 of the side wall/ceiling?).

Next step is some general decay time control on the walls. If you're short on getting additional bass control right now, consider using 2" 703 or similar for reflections and spacing them off the wall a couple inches. That will let them help in the upper bass a bit.

Bryan
 
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