Tascam MSR16 and 3M 996 tape

[altruistica]

I bought some 1/2" tape, 3M 996 (barcode 20632-007-2-021) from an Ebay seller. He thinks it was from the mid nineties and offered me a full refund if I wasn't happy with it. I think most of it has never been used. Now the pinch roller and tacho rubber arrived I had a chance to try it and found the following:

1. The machine has to work much harder to FF or REW using the 996 tape rather than the sole reel of AGFA 468 I have.
2. There is some initial shedding (fine grains, not flakes) but then it seems clean.
3. After doing some recording and rewinding to the beginning, the tape wouldn't play as I presume it was stuck to the head and the capstan roller wouldn't pull (probably slipping).
4.My gut feeling is to send it back......is there anything I can do to make it work?

 

[WarmJetGuitar]

I had the same experience using it on our Fostex G16 which should be very similar to your Tascam.
It was fine for tracking some friends who wanted to transfer to digital and mix in the box, but definitely not for mixing and dubbing in the analog domain like I usually do.

Everything slows down and sometimes I have to turn the reel by hand for the tape to start - everything is fine when using RMGI or BASF SM911 or Quantegy 456.

Stuff like this is too thick and heavy for our semi-pro multitracks, it's probably designed for mastering/mixdown work on a Studer, Ampex or similar.

 

[jpmorris]

I'd send it back. If it's stressing the machine, that's not going to be good for it long-term.

 

[altruistica]

It's a shame 'caus the gold coloured reels look fabulous against the brown of the MSR16......I might keep a couple of reels just for the blank reels.

Cheers, it's going back.

Al

 

[sweetbeats]

I avoid 996 based on personal experience with mild SSS symptoms on my Ampex MM-1000. It's a shame because it is good tape...the basis for the popular GP9, and 3M had excellent tape slitting equipment.

 

[Beck]

I've always recommended against using 996 on decks like the Tascam MSR-16 and Fostex E16/G16 because of the stiffness, thickness and bias issues. But as is the nature of web forums that info is buried in ancient threads, so all I can do is repeat it now and then... until I get my tape guide finished, but that will require less drama in my life to focus on, and that never seems to let up. Maybe someday. (Anyone got any Valium they can spare)

The other problem as always, if you didn't buy it new and sealed it may not even be 996 Once a tape is open and used its difficult to tell exactly what is on the reel. But anyway, yeah send it back for a refund.

3M tape like 996 should be sealed in a plastic bag inside the box. If it is not then it is not new.

 

[RRuskin]

I've always recommended against using 996 on decks like the Tascam MSR-16 and Fostex E16/G16 because of the stiffness, thickness and bias issues. But as is the nature of web forums that info is buried in ancient threads, so all I can do is repeat it now and then... until I get my tape guide finished, but that will require less drama in my life to focus on, and that never seems to let up. Maybe someday. (Anyone got any Valium they can spare)

The other problem as always, if you didn't buy it new and sealed it may not even be 996 Once a tape is open and used its difficult to tell exactly what is on the reel. But anyway, yeah send it back for a refund.

3M tape like 996 should be sealed in a plastic bag inside the box. If it is not then it is not new.

996 was my favorite tape when I was running my Fostex E-16 30ips & Tascam 25-2 machines for production. No problems with transport behavior nor any undue shedding when 3M tape production was in full swing. The batch I bought from their final run did shed quite a bit, though. IMHO - buying used or NOS tape is not worth the headache.

 

[Beck]

996 was my favorite tape when I was running my Fostex E-16 30ips & Tascam 25-2 machines for production. No problems with transport behavior nor any undue shedding when 3M tape production was in full swing. The batch I bought from their final run did shed quite a bit, though. IMHO - buying used or NOS tape is not worth the headache.

Glad it worked for you. The problems with 996 and other +9 class tapes on narrow-track machines are greater tape path and transport wear, and significantly worse crosstalk if hitting as hard as its made to be hit. Of course you don't have to hit 996 or GP9 any harder than you would 456 if you just like the sound of the tape. I used GP9 on a TSR-8 for a while and it worked well, but I wouldn't call 8-tracks on 1/2" narrow-track since its roughly the same track width as 24-track on 2" tape. Using GP9 at hotter levels made it quiet enough to turn off the dbx in most cases.

However, it still seemed a bit heavy for the transport and I didn't want to put more wear and tear than necessary on my machine. I went back to using Quantegy 456 and BASF SM911.

I would not equate used tape with NOS tape. NOS is great if you know what to look for. 30-year-old sealed tape is as new as the day it was made. However, if its open all bets are off on what kind of condition its in or even what kind of tape is on the reel.

IME and IMO the best tape ever made is from days gone by, so if you want the best tape you can buy look for new-old-stock. What's being made today is ok, but still no cigar compared to older tape. NOS can be five years old or 40 years old. Fact is we always bought NOS tape if it sat on the shelf for a while at the local music store. I'll take BASF SM911 made in Germany over RMGI SM911 made in Holland any day... and it costs less. (It should really cost more) .

 

[RRuskin]

Glad it worked for you. The problems with 996 and other +9 class tapes on narrow-track machines are greater tape path and transport wear, and significantly worse crosstalk if hitting as hard as its made to be hit. Of course you don't have to hit 996 or GP9 any harder than you would 456 if you just like the sound of the tape. I used GP9 on a TSR-8 for a while and it worked well, but I wouldn't call 8-tracks on 1/2" narrow-track since its roughly the same track width as 24-track on 2" tape. Using GP9 at hotter levels made it quiet enough to turn off the dbx in most cases.

However, it still seemed a bit heavy for the transport and I didn't want to put more wear and tear than necessary on my machine. I went back to using Quantegy 456 and BASF SM911.

I would not equate used tape with NOS tape. NOS is great if you know what to look for. 30-year-old sealed tape is as new as the day it was made. However, if its open all bets are off on what kind of condition its in or even what kind of tape is on the reel.

IME and IMO the best tape ever made is from days gone by, so if you want the best tape you can buy look for new-old-stock. What's being made today is ok, but still no cigar compared to older tape. NOS can be five years old or 40 years old. Fact is we always bought NOS tape if it sat on the shelf for a while at the local music store.

Cross-talk was never an issue as I never used super elevated levels on any of my machines. 320 nWb/M & 250 nWb/M respectively for the Fostex and Tascam. And because dbx I was used and respected on both, print levels were never outrageously hot either.

To each his own but having had more than one bad experience, I would never purchase NOS 456 even if still sealed. Fortunately, it's no longer an issue as my clients have no interest in using tape of any kind for their current productions.

 

[Beck]

To each his own but having had more than one bad experience, I would never purchase NOS 456 even if still sealed. Fortunately, it's no longer an issue as my clients have no interest in using tape of any kind for their current productions.

Well, I've put a lot of hours into helping people pick the right NOS tape. Right, lots of Ampex 456 will be bad even if still sealed and unused, so you have to know which type not to buy. It's easy for me, but some just can't seem to navigate it. It's not that hard. There is good tape and there is bad tape and there is a 100% tried and true way to avoid the bad stuff. It's all here in this forum, but ya gotta look for it.

Sooner or later the day may come when all tape is NOS, so there is no time like the present to learn how to find the right stuff. The only bad reel of tape I've had in the last ten years was a reel of new RMGI SM911. All my Scotch, BASF/EMTEC, Maxell, and Ampex/Quantegy is as good as the day it was made.

But yeah, if you're not buying tape anymore you don't have to worry about it.