Taping studs instead of RC/HC+RSIC

  • Thread starter Thread starter WagTheDog
  • Start date Start date
W

WagTheDog

New member
I've seen several sites that talk about taping studs and then screwing the drywall onto them, as opposed to RC or Hat Channel w/RSIC. Since the idea is to decouple the drywall from the studs, wouldn't taping them serve this purpose? Or is the fact that you are still screwing into the wood studs the reason more people don't do this (the dreaded "shorted" problem in RC)? My biggest fear with all this is spending $600 on RSIC clips and hat channel but not improving the isolation any more than just double 5/8" on the interior leaf.

I'm sure this idea will give some people here a good laugh....just trying to justify the additional cost in my own mind....
 
Last edited:
WagTheDog said:
I've seen several sites that talk about taping studs and then screwing the drywall onto them, as opposed to RC or Hat Channel w/RSIC. Since the idea is to decouple the drywall from the studs, wouldn't taping them serve this purpose? Or is the fact that you are still screwing into the wood studs the reason more people don't do this (the dreaded "shorted" problem in RC)? My biggest fear with all this is spending $600 on RSIC clips and hat channel but not improving the isolation any more than just double 5/8" on the interior leaf.

I'm sure this idea will give some people here a good laugh....just trying to justify the additional cost in my own mind....
Click to expand...

Wag,

the screws still short out - although (depending on your situation) you might be better suited with RC-1 than with the RISC system -

please describe your existing (and intended future) construction.

Rod
 
Rod,

Thanks for the reply....by the way, I enjoyed your book, very informative.

My setup is described (with pictures) in the "Second Floor Studio Questions" thread (Post #66 shows alot of recent pics)....but basically it's an unfinished bonus room over the garage....it sits on 2X12 joists with 24" OC. It also has a beam down the middle, so the joists spans are 7'6" on both sides.

South wall - there is a bedroom on one side....inside the studio you see the studs and insulation of that bedroom, basically a single leaf. I have framed another wall about 12" out from the existing wall for my new interior leaf.
North wall- brick with a window (an exterior wall). I have framed another wall about 6" out from this wall for my new interior leaf. I intend to box in the window with plywood or sheetrock.
The problem with these 2 walls is that my framing is coupled to the existing wall studs at several points, so it's not a true wall-within-a-wall structure.
West wall - this is basically the roofline of the house at an approximately 45 degree angle, so my west wall is composed of shingles, roof paper, and sheathing that is sitting on 2X6 joists. My interior leaf would be attaching 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock to the existing 2X6 joists. Therefore, the entire west "wall" is coupled to the outer leaf by being attached to the same studs.
East wall - same as West wall for about 6', then it branches off to a 4'6" knee-wall.
Ceiling - squared off from the West and East walls.
Floor - right now its 1" plywood on top of the aforementioned 2X12 joists

If you looked at the room from the north or south it would look kinda like a teepee except for the east knee-wall.

Right now there is a door that goes from the hallway into the studio area. I plan on putting another door to open into the studio, solid core.
All walls and ceiling will be 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock. I will probably puck the floor about 3" then put 1" MDF then felt then 6mm laminate flooring.

Here is the 3rd page link to my other thread:
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=205193&page=3&pp=25

For HVAC I'm still debating whether to tie off from my existing Central Air/Heat or to go with a mini-split.

From all that I have read, the RSIC sounds like the best setup, but my concern is whether there is something else in my setup (such as the coupling issues I've mentioned) or something I've missed that would negate any benefits of RSIC.....I could use the $600 worth of RSIC clips and buy a mini-split with it (or maybe some recording gear :) ). But if it would add substantially to the isolation then I'll go with it.

Thanks again Rod.
 
Last edited:
Rod, I suggested RC in the first place, but after hearing his concerns about construction PRECISION(shorting out) and all the angles, I figured RSIC would be easier with the wide hatchannel flange, better iso, and stronger. Especially since the original RC, or the good stuff is hard to find now days. At least here. Personally, for the money I would do RC(I have a bunch of it :D ) cause I'm used to precision fabrication and understand the principles. But....its his project. I only can suggest things to make it easier.

Since the idea is to decouple the drywall from the studs, wouldn't taping them serve this purpose? Or is the fact that you are still screwing into the wood studs the reason more people don't do this (the dreaded "shorted" problem in RC)? My biggest fear with all this is spending $600 on RSIC clips and hat channel but not improving the isolation any more than just double 5/8" on the interior leaf.
Click to expand...
Taping??? :confused: As in what?? :confused: If you mean as in taping "threads" :confused: or taping on the wall? :D Or "tape and mud?? :confused: or do you refer to using screws directly through the drywall into studs....vs what? NAILS??? NEVER USE NAILS FOR DRYWALL IN A STUDIO :mad: :D But I don't get it....didn't you understand why I suggested RC/RSIC in the first place??? :confused: SO YOU DECOUPLE THE DRYWALL FROM THE STUDS!! DOH!! So why would you consider going back to just fastening it directly to the studs...OF COURSE YOU WILL GET A HELL OF A LOT MORE ISOLATION WITH DECOUPLING!!!
OR DID I WASTE MY TIME???? :rolleyes: :confused: :( :eek: :)

The price of the RSIC is only offset by your NEED FOR TRANSMISSION LOSS and your skills at mounting drywall to RC. Thats all. Only YOU can make the decision cause only YOU know. :confused:
fitZ
 
HOLY MOLY.....That last post makes THREE THOUSAND POSTS!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Well, considering I've asked the owner and Mods to allow some stickys on this bbs and it has fallen on deaf ears, I'm going to post one more thread...on MY STUDIO!! And thats it. I've done my part here the best I know how, but I don't have time to waste on the same ole shit anymore. I have a BUNCH of CAD stuff I was going to finish and post, but since it would just die into oblivion in the archives...fuck it. :mad:



Rod, I hope you continue to post here. The bbs needs an expert to oversee the "netfact" propagation!! Ha! Wag, I tried to help illustrate some options for you. I hope it helped. If not, well, good luck.
fitZ
 
I had read where some people have used tape on the sides of the studs and put the drywall up onto the tape. It doesn't exactly decouple but it at least puts a barrier between the wood and the drywall. I told you where the tape is IN THE TITLE!

Dude, I KNOW you recommended RSIC.....I haven't forgotten. But I'm trying to look at all possibilities here. For instance (as I've already told you), this whole thing is over the garage and has a window. So, IF I can't isolate the flooring or the window past let's say an STC of 50, what the hell good does it do to RSIC all the walls for an STC of 62? That's why I'm trying to build up to the point of my weakest link. Maybe you have an unlimited budget, if so, good for you. I don't.

What's your problem today anyway? Geez, don't stroke out.
 
Last edited:
What's your problem today anyway? Geez, don't stroke out.
Click to expand...
No problem. I guess I misunderstood you. My mistake. BTW, I have NO budget for mine. Thats why its taken 20 yrs. :rolleyes: As to the tape, I guess I don't see how that would do anything. Oh well. Sorry for my nature. Good luck wag.
fitZ
 
Going with RSIC clips.....may as well shoot for the best isolation I can get. If the door is my weak link, I'll just do what I can to build it up.
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
No problem. I guess I misunderstood you. My mistake. BTW, I have NO budget for mine. Thats why its taken 20 yrs. :rolleyes: As to the tape, I guess I don't see how that would do anything. Oh well. Sorry for my nature. Good luck wag.
fitZ
Click to expand...

Related subject...Rick, I saw a photo (forget which one right off hand) on John Sayers' site that used "rubber pucks" to isolate the studs from drywall as well as floor joists from a concrete floor (with moisture barrier below and insulation in between). Any opinions on this? I thought I may try it for mine if you or anyone else has some good feedback regarding this method.
 
Seeker of Rock said:
Related subject...Rick, I saw a photo (forget which one right off hand) on John Sayers' site that used "rubber pucks" to isolate the studs from drywall as well as floor joists from a concrete floor (with moisture barrier below and insulation in between). Any opinions on this? I thought I may try it for mine if you or anyone else has some good feedback regarding this method.
Click to expand...

This can work well for walls sitting on pucks if you calculate the compression of the pucks properly, but i have never seen pucks themselves used to isolate drwall from studs........ could you post a link?

I (personally) would avoid this with a framed deck because it is so difficult with a wood deck to get the center frequency low enough that the deck doesn't become a drum head - at which point it will magnify signals at it's center frequency.

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Rod,

I may not have to float my floor....I'm going to do the walls and ceiling first and then see.....if I DO float the floor, are you saying that pucks are not a good idea?

Thanks Rick for the link.
 
Seeker, I too would like a link to "wallboard on pucks" - since I don't remember ever making such a statement. You're not confusing that with RSIC clips and hat channel, are you?

Wag, IIRC you already have mass on BOTH sides of your floor joists - so if you float your floor (weight limitations notwithstanding) you'll create a 3-leaf partition between your garage and the studio.

Only way I know around that would be to REMOVE your upper floor sheathing, install whatever iso devices you choose, and replace the upper floor; probably with something like heavy ply, overlaid with a couple inches of concrete to get the mass high enough to lower m-a-m frequency.

You would DEFINITELY want to employ a local engineer for this to make sure your loading is acceptable though.

Barring this, I'd probably just add another layer to the floor using GG and screws; I'm pretty sure your short effective span would handle that... Steve
 
Doggone, and I though quitting smokeing was hard. :D

.Rick, I saw a photo (forget which one right off hand) on John Sayers' site that used "rubber pucks" to isolate the studs from drywall as well as floor joists from a concrete floor (with moisture barrier below and insulation in between). Any opinions on this? I thought I may try it for mine if you or anyone else has some good feedback regarding this method.
Click to expand...

i have never seen pucks themselves used to isolate drwall from studs........ could you post a link?
Click to expand...
Niether have I(on the net of course ;) ). Unless they mean something like RSIC "pucks", which they are not "pucks" in that context. I mean, how would you fasten pucks to studs, and then fasten drywall to the pucks in a different location on the puck???? :confused: Otherwise, if you fasten drywall THROUGH the pucks directly into the studs, you accomplish NOTHING! Right Rod?. :(

Wag, excuse me for continuing Seekers question on YOUR thread.

On another note, Rod, Seeker has a thread here regarding his studio which he is in the process of building, and this is located in FLORIDA :eek: . He has built an exterior shell of concrete block with an ISOLATED slab. I offered advice in that thread that, from my perspective, building a wood "floating floor", made no sense, as it just creates a drum head, when in fact he already has an isolated slab, which is dampened by earth. What could be better than that?

From a CODE standpoint, even if no roof load is placed on the INTERIOR envelope walls, these walls still need to be substantially connected(fastened) to the isolated slab, no? And given your advice(if I'm correct?) regarding isolated slabs LF transmission distance to the outside world, I see no reason to decouple the interior envelope walls from the slab. In fact, under the threat of hurricane, exactly HOW would you do this anyway? I doubt that pucks and decoupled(rubber bushing) bolts into the slab would meet code, but I couldn't say for sure. This is where getting a permit...opps :eek: ..see below.

And furthermore, seeing as this is a double wall assembly with a isolated slab, nor do I see a need for decoupling the drywall from the studs, as the isolated slab, although not "floating", is seperated from the exterior footing by a joint(which is currently filled with sand), no? I also am under the opinion that he needs very professional advice when it comes to his roof "truss" design, as suspending heavy loads to UNENGINEERED trusses, especially in Florida, may be asking for serious trouble. Currently, if I'm not mistaken, and forgive me for saying so Seeker, but this exterior shell is NOT PERMITTED(no permit) by your local BID. :eek: Although, you DID acknowlege this fact in your thread Seeker. Anyway, thats my .02, but heed my disclaimer. :D
 
Steve, you posted that while I was typing. Hahahahah! Good to see you here. :)
 
Steve,

Removing the existing flooring would be a major undertaking at this point, so I think the GG and screws would be a better way to go......

Rick, interrupt all you want dude, the more info the better....

Got my electrical roughed in yesterday.....also had a guy come out and give an estimate for tying into my existing HVAC. Man, it pays to shop around on that sort of thing.....a week or so ago I had one of the local A/C companies give me an estimate.....$600 for 2 vents and return.....the guy that gave me an estimate yesterday for 2 vents/return - $350......my wife works at the Texas Highway Dept Credit Union and got me hooked up with one of their electricians and HVAC people, so I'm getting a good price on some of this work....

This weekend I'm insulating.....R19 in east/west walls, R30 in north/south walls since they are double-walls and have the necessary gap.
 
Rick, interrupt all you want dude, the more info the better....
Click to expand...
Ok, in that case... :p since you are roughing in electrical, and you are planning on penetrating your interior envelope for outlets, you would be wise to talk to your electrician regarding PUTTY PACKS to pack around the electrical outlet boxes PRIOR to drywalling. I'm sure Rod mentions this in his book, although since I don't possess one, I don't know.
 
Hey Rick, just wanted to say thanks, and I have learned a ton from you. Your efforts on this board are appreciated by many.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top