L
LEH
New member
First post here. I've been lurking aroung for a couple years. A highly held Guinness toast to you all.
Here's my problem.......
I have 2 VS840's, a GX and an EX. I wanted to test the sync between the two, and check the quality when I pushed the units to the limit the sent the audio to Cakewalk. So I recorded drums with 8 mics - four to each VS. I'll list the mics, the unit each went to and the position of each
840GX
input 1 - Rode NT1000 - overhead - 6 feet high
input 2 - Rode NT1000 - overhead - 6 feet high
(overheads in XY(45deg))
input 3 - Rode NTK - room mic - 10 feet away, facing straight ahead 6 feet above the floor
input 4 - Rode NTK - room mic - 10 feet away, facing straight ahead 6 feet above the floor
(NTKs were 4 feet from one another
840EX
input 1 - Shure KSM32 - 6 feet high, mid kit directly above the kick 45 degrees facing the drummer
input 2 - Neumann TLM103 - 1 inch above the top head of the floor tom, facing directly down at it
input 3 - Shure KSM32 - 1 inch above the top head of the snare, facing directly down at it
input 4 - Shure beta 52 - 4 inches from the beater head, slightly off center, facing straight ahead
The overheads and room mics went to a Mackie 1402 for preamplification, the rest went to ART Tube MPs.
I banged on the drums for 15 minutes. The zip disks were new and empty, the machines gave disc full errors at 14:30 minutes.
Everything synced up perfectly using midi at recording and playback with minimal phase issues, I noticed very little in the overheads and rooms.
So the next step was to transfer everything to Cakewalk, using both disks from the EX and GX, but only using the GX (high bitrate) for transferring both. I use a M Audio Audiophile card. Here's where the issues start.
First of all there is a slight delay from one disk to another, this was not surprising, but if I shift the tracks 0.005 seconds, the tracks line up.
The main problem is that the overheads and room mics have a huge phase problem. When I play all four tracks together in Cakewalk, the whole kit gets really middy (middy,not muddy) and I hear a huge swoooosh(like a Led Zep Kashmir effect) as I move the faders up and down. Like I said there was a slight phase thing going on before the transfer on the 840's, but not like this. These troublesome tracks were all recorded on the same VS - the 840GX. I've tried sending the tracks to separate tracks 2 at a time, one at a time, in a single stereo track, in mono, pan variations, everything I can think of, but the problem stays the same. The tracks are lining up exactly, with drumstick clicks, I head no time delay, when I cymbal crashes the sound waves audibly line up. I have been successful in removing the phase thing by shifting the tracks a few millisecongs forward and backward, which removes the middy swooosh, but addes time delay, so that tells me the timing sync is okay.
The other tracks, line up fine, free of phase problems.
I'm stuck, can't think of anything else to fix this.
But I have to say that all in all the experiment went well. With all of the factors here - 2 different machines synced up and the transfer done using just one of the machines, I am surprised it worked as well as it did.
By the way, those new Rodes - sweet.
If you have any input I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
LH
Here's my problem.......
I have 2 VS840's, a GX and an EX. I wanted to test the sync between the two, and check the quality when I pushed the units to the limit the sent the audio to Cakewalk. So I recorded drums with 8 mics - four to each VS. I'll list the mics, the unit each went to and the position of each
840GX
input 1 - Rode NT1000 - overhead - 6 feet high
input 2 - Rode NT1000 - overhead - 6 feet high
(overheads in XY(45deg))
input 3 - Rode NTK - room mic - 10 feet away, facing straight ahead 6 feet above the floor
input 4 - Rode NTK - room mic - 10 feet away, facing straight ahead 6 feet above the floor
(NTKs were 4 feet from one another
840EX
input 1 - Shure KSM32 - 6 feet high, mid kit directly above the kick 45 degrees facing the drummer
input 2 - Neumann TLM103 - 1 inch above the top head of the floor tom, facing directly down at it
input 3 - Shure KSM32 - 1 inch above the top head of the snare, facing directly down at it
input 4 - Shure beta 52 - 4 inches from the beater head, slightly off center, facing straight ahead
The overheads and room mics went to a Mackie 1402 for preamplification, the rest went to ART Tube MPs.
I banged on the drums for 15 minutes. The zip disks were new and empty, the machines gave disc full errors at 14:30 minutes.
Everything synced up perfectly using midi at recording and playback with minimal phase issues, I noticed very little in the overheads and rooms.
So the next step was to transfer everything to Cakewalk, using both disks from the EX and GX, but only using the GX (high bitrate) for transferring both. I use a M Audio Audiophile card. Here's where the issues start.
First of all there is a slight delay from one disk to another, this was not surprising, but if I shift the tracks 0.005 seconds, the tracks line up.
The main problem is that the overheads and room mics have a huge phase problem. When I play all four tracks together in Cakewalk, the whole kit gets really middy (middy,not muddy) and I hear a huge swoooosh(like a Led Zep Kashmir effect) as I move the faders up and down. Like I said there was a slight phase thing going on before the transfer on the 840's, but not like this. These troublesome tracks were all recorded on the same VS - the 840GX. I've tried sending the tracks to separate tracks 2 at a time, one at a time, in a single stereo track, in mono, pan variations, everything I can think of, but the problem stays the same. The tracks are lining up exactly, with drumstick clicks, I head no time delay, when I cymbal crashes the sound waves audibly line up. I have been successful in removing the phase thing by shifting the tracks a few millisecongs forward and backward, which removes the middy swooosh, but addes time delay, so that tells me the timing sync is okay.
The other tracks, line up fine, free of phase problems.
I'm stuck, can't think of anything else to fix this.
But I have to say that all in all the experiment went well. With all of the factors here - 2 different machines synced up and the transfer done using just one of the machines, I am surprised it worked as well as it did.
By the way, those new Rodes - sweet.
If you have any input I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
LH