sweet sound at a low volume

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jdrockweller

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I have a semi-unusual spin on, what I'm sure is an often asked question. Here are the details:

Current Gear:
- Schecter Diamond Series C-1+ strat with dual Duncan-Designed humbuckers
- Boss Turbo Overdrive OD-2R pedal
- Fender Blues Junior amp
- Shure AXS4 condenser mic

Current Sound:
- good lows, muddy mids, fizzly highs (blending in some tubes helps a little with the highs, but it muddies the mids much worse)

Sound Wanted:
- good lows, punchy & chunky & crisp mids, crisp & delicious (read: no fizzle) highs; mostly for rhythm guitar purposes
- similar sounds in songs:
* 12 Stones - Broken
* Seether - Fine Again (chorus guitar sound)
* Foo Fighters - All My Life (chorus sound)
* Disturbed - Liberate (the bridge guitar sound)

The Twist:
I am doing most of my recording in an apartment. While I do have some leeway to turn up the volume, it is limited. So I can't go so far as to buy some Marshall head and attach it to four Marshall 4x12" cabs and turn the sucker to 11 - for that extra little push over the cliff.

The Questions:
1) I am wondering if there is a solid state multi-sound pedal out there that will emulate the sound I want close enough to work better than a good amp that only sounds good when it's turned to 11?
2) If micing up a good amp is the only way to get that kind of sound, is there one that you can recommend that will get that "sweet sound" at less than 200dB?
3) A friend advised me that an amp with more than one speaker will sound much better than a single because of the sonic interaction between the two speakers. Is there truth to this?
4) Does a closed-back or open-back cab make a difference?

I know I've thrown a lot out there. I'm sure some of these questions have been answered before, but maybe not in the same context (of having volume restrictions). Feel free to be as longwinded and opinionated as you want with your response... I can use all the advice I can get.

Thanks a ton!
Allen
 
I forgot to mention, as part of question #1, that I heard a high-end Behringer multi-pedal that a buddy of mine played through that sounded as good or better than most amp-driven sounds I've heard. He sold his Mesa Boogie and got this thing instead. Nonetheless, has anyone had any experience recording such a thing? Either direct line-in or through an amp and miced up?

Whew, more questions. I would say sorry, but I guess you guys love answering 'em or else you wouldn't be active on this awesome forum. :)
 
Your buddy is going to be pissed that he sold his boogie. Those modeller pedals trick you into thinking the guitar sounds good but they don't cut through enough in a mix.

It sounds like you want a more modern tone and that is what Boogies are good for. You can get a good tone with a lower volume if you use a Hot Plate. They put a load on the amp so you can turn it up and really drive the tubes but the output can be set to any volume you want. A cabinet isolation box can also help if you want to crank it up without pissing off the neighbors.

A 4x12 cabinet isn't absolutely required but they do have a smoother sound than a small combo. I think just having the cabinet seperate from the amp helps in reducing a lot of extra noise from the speakers shaking the amp.
 
He sold his boogie for a behringer?
Tex has good ideas. You could try a POD (line6) And that way you could record in the middle of the night without bugging anyone. Or a j-station for about half the price of a pod. But I'm sure you know micing an amp almost always sounds better than even a good di w/ amp simulation on it.
 
Clarification - my buddy did not sell his Mesa Boogie to buy a Behringer. He sold his Mesa cause he needed the cash. Then when he went to find a replacement at a later date, he found the Behringer and went with that solution - which he does like a lot, even tho it's no Boogie.

What about if I was to buy a modulator (say a POD xt) and then route it into the amp (clean, with a slight tube blend for warmth) and then mic the amp for a more natural sound? Has anyone tried that? Results?
 
Plenty of people run the Pod through an amp and that is probably better than going direct. I have a Pod and when I got my Marshall AVT stack I tried using the Pod in a bunch of different configurations until I found the one I liked. I tend to prefer the Pod stay at least 10ft from anything that my guitar is plugged into. If you want to suck the life and tone out of your guitar plug it into a Pod.
 
Tex: Are you saying that you think the pod isn't any good? I don't actually have one i've just played through one in a store. But as you were saying it could suck the life out of a recording. I wouldn't do guitar that way either given another option. i'd much rather mic an amp. Are you saying that because you think most any amp simulator will sound poor or because of the pod itself?
 
The POD and it's bretherin (J-Station, Behringer Vamp, etc..) Are wonderful and amazing tools. They give you all of the classic amp/cabinet combinations for pennies compared to the real thing. They can and are used for recording every day. At some point though, you want just a little more warmth, bite, power, feel, whatever... and that's where the POD is lacking. Personally, I think it's a bit noisy for studio work, but that's the least of the problems. There is no solution for micing the real deal. Yes, the POD comes close. It can even fool a lot of so called 'Pros'. But it is not the same as the real thing. There's something lacking in it's tonal quality. If it's the only way to get the sound you're looking for, by all means use it. Better to record than not to record. But one day you sill find its' limits, and you'll be forced to go the traditional route. I'm glad they are available, in much the same way as I'm glad we have inexpensive large diaphragm condenor mics. It's the only way for the majority of beginners to get anything close to the sound they want.
 
Have ay of your guys used a bass pod for di bass? How does the wrmth and such hold up for that as opposed to other di boxes?
 
My experience with running the POD through a guitar amp is that it does nothing for it. The POD's output is designed to mimic the signal that hits the tape after one has properly miked up a great amp trhough a real cabinet -- and so it's designed to go to tape or out to hi-fi speakers. To take that signal and then run it back through a guitar amp is sort of pointless and unreasonable, and it's not surprising to me that it makes the POD sound way less believable. Perhaps one can get a great sound this way, but on the face of it it's kind of a silly thing to expect, even with the AIR circuit disengaged.
 
should I run the POD through my Studio Projects VTB-1 preamp and blend in some tubes for warmth? or do you recommend skipping the preamp and running it straight to the recording line in?
 
Pha'dur said:
Tex: Are you saying that you think the pod isn't any good? I don't actually have one i've just played through one in a store. But as you were saying it could suck the life out of a recording. I wouldn't do guitar that way either given another option. i'd much rather mic an amp. Are you saying that because you think most any amp simulator will sound poor or because of the pod itself?
Click to expand...

The bottom line is there are probably better ways to spend the money. I'd much rather use a Blues Junior than a Pod and they cost about the same. I haven't used any other amp simulaters except the Pod but I've yet to hear a recording that would make me change my mind.

They are almost passable for highly distorted and compressed sounds but the clean and dirty tones are absolutely horrible.
 
decent Marshall head - $1200-$2500
decent 4x12 Marshall cab - $600-$800
Shure sm57 microphone - $80-$150
decent compressor - $175-$1000
decent mic preamp - $120-$1000

versus

POD xp - $399


Is the difference worth that much money, for a person who is not a professional (read: makes enough money doing this to survive on that alone)? The bigger question is, cn the POD be tweaked to sound close to as good as the "real deal" in a mix or on a recording?
 
I"m not real sure exactly what kind of sound you are trying to get and I"m not familiar with the POD so I'll tell you what I use and how I hook it up ( I don't recomend or endorse these products but I have gotten some pretty good results with them.) I use a variety of guitars into a DOD FX7(it's noisy when the volume is up but quiet enough at low volume) it has stereo outs one goes to the DI in on my recorder, the other goes to the input on my amp(Fender Princeton Chorus) which I mic through a Yammaha mic preamp then to my recorder. Splitting the siginal gives a much fuller sound to the guitar and a little exrta room to tweek the sound before you record. I don't know if the POD has stereo outs but if it does try this idea, I think you will like the results, any way finding the "right sound" takes a bit of patience and a lot of experimentation, keep trying, you'll get it.
 
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