Survey on Vintage equipment !!

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jakeislistening

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Hey there folks,

I have a big favor to ask. Would you take ten minutes of your time and please take a quick survey about vintage audio equipment? It would help me out tremendously.

I’m doing a research project on the “cult” of vintage audio and its value to the audio professional vs. the average listener. The results from this survey will be a significant part of my research in terms of what the professional thinks. It’s okay if you are a student; you still have some professional background and opinions that will affect your future career. Your feedback at the end of the survey is of course greatly appreciated also.

Alright enough already, here’s the link...
www.songmatters.com

Thanks a lot for your time

:)
 
hmmmm, that made me think how much random old crap i have around here.


yes, old, not vintage, but old
 
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Question 11 is seriously dumbass...

11. I believe vintage equipment is valuable because… (check all that apply)
a. I do not believe it is valuable
b. They are rare and expensive pieces of equipment
c. They sound better than newer equipment
d. They appear valuable to clients and give an appearance of professionalism
e. I was told they are valuable and sound better
Click to expand...

how about adding "f. It is valuable because there is no other tool that will do the job of specific vintage pieces"... in other words, this shit is all just tools.

Let me remind you ace that no motherfucker ever walked down the street humming the mic pre. These things are all tools that engineers use to do their level best to support the musical statement... they do not exist for the purpose of us "looking cool", they exist because there is no new tool that works as well or sounds appropriate in an application.

Here's another thought... in your "Hypothesis" you open with a comment from one of the world's leading morons, Michael Cooper http://www.songmatters.com/hypothesis.html ... interestingly, on 22 October of 2001 I posted a response to the Michael Cooper article you referenced on the "recpit" site at ProSoundWeb.com

Here's a link to the article: http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=70 the article is called "Reviewing a Reviewer" and illustrates the many, many, many problems with Mr. Cooper's exceptionally shitty articles of the period. I dare say that from what I read in those articles at the time they were published, I wouldn't let that idiot mix my shower water... never mind attempt a Martini.

Best of luck with your homework.
 
harsh words indicate a bitter cause....

look Fletcher, thanks for the "present"...
You don't know me... and now, I don't care too much to know you.
I'm sorry if your wife left you, or if you are hiding your homophobia, or if you have some Vietnam flashbacks or whatever.... but rather than be a cynical and morose asshole (my opinion not Michael Coopers...) and shit all over my parade, maybe you could give constructive critisism about something you didnt' like. Look I get the feeling that you know your stuff and have been involved in the biz for a while,that's great...you gave me an address to check out "one of the moderators there actually did invent the parametric equalizer..." I've communicated with George Massenburg a bit... (but not to rant about it "...or hangin' with George and Harvey on R/E/P") and he's taken the survey and knows a ton if you ask me. I don't know if anyone from Mercenary Audio also invented the parametric EQ or anything as I've had three other ppl so far say that, but George is like a really nice guy. Someone that understands that the ppl you shit on while your are on top will be the ppl you meet on the way down. If you had bothered to read the other things I'd put on my site "ace" you would see that I believe performance is everything. I'm sorry if I intruded on your personal playground genius, but this wonderful internet is for everyone. Someday I hope you find your dessert island where everyone knows as much as you and you don't have to deal with anyone that isn't on the inside. Until then, try not to be such a dip shit to the other "seriously dumbass... " ppl that have to live on this planet with you.
But thank you for taking the survey! :)
 
Excuse me while I step back a bit as to not be hit with the shit that's about to fly. :D :D :D
Sic 'em Fletch! :D :D :D
 
oh yeah by the way, "no other tool will do the job of specific vintage peices"? You might want to tell someone over at Mackie and have them stop making the UAD 1 cards, and for that matter talk to Simon Blackwood at Focusrite and let them know they should stop making the liquid strip.....
cheers
 
Track Rat said:
Excuse me while I step back a bit as to not be hit with the shit that's about to fly. :D :D :D
Sic 'em Fletch! :D :D :D
Click to expand...
heh-heh.... gotta love this quote "I don't know if anyone from Mercenary Audio also invented the parametric EQ or anything" -- apparently, our "buddy" Jake has never heard of the Mercenary Editions of some of the high-end stuff.......

You'd think people would at least buy a clue before opening their mouths and inserting their feet........!
 
a clue...

Bear,
I've got no problem with you... and you're right I haven't heard any of Mercenary Audio's stuff.... I'm sure it's amazing. I don't doubt that Fletcher is very knowledgeable and very talented... Does that make Fletcher a better person? I guess he can talk shit all day long as long as he makes good eq's....?
If I'm as clueless as you think, than I'm probably really walking into a dark alley. But I don't reckon I'm as clueless as you suppose...
 
The whole survey has a built in premise. If you are asking for people's time, at least spend a little of yours creating impartial and meaningful questions.
 
jakeislistening said:
look Fletcher, thanks for the "present"...
You don't know me... and now, I don't care too much to know you.
I'm sorry if your wife left you, or if you are hiding your homophobia, or if you have some Vietnam flashbacks or whatever.... but rather than be a cynical and morose asshole (my opinion not Michael Coopers...) and shit all over my parade, maybe you could give constructive critisism about something you didnt' like.
Click to expand...

What the heck is that???? I mean, you ask for feedback, you get indeed constructive criticism (maybe not in the style you like, but you GET it) and start out with a total war or what???

Do you ever think? Why do you think that some people still have those old rotary speakers and carry them from gig to gig? Because they like to suffer from a broken back?

Your way of thinking somehow reminds me of a 'militant pacificist' and that's just to have a halfway decent way of writing what I think about your attitude. I assume, you'll get some worse feedback, too :D (Hopefully)

aXel
(Not a pro, just a non-audio engineer and hobby musician, neither have I invented the parametric EQ... Just to give you an idea why not to care about my opinion :D)
 
Ya know that thing where you clap your hands and the light turns off and on? Well, I didn't invent that either.
 
the smell of blood....

it looks like i'm getting plenty of feedback volltreffer :cool:
Maybe I am taking Fletcher's feedback too critically... he also sent me an email in which he could have kept his feedback. He decided that it was better to air it out on the forum, I guess for some amusement.

"maybe not in the style you want but you get it"...

look guys, take the survey or don't, that's your choice. Leave feedback or don't, that's your choice. I appreciate it all, really. But to basically plaster some stuff about me and my work on a site and hold it up as being shit compared with his is ridiculous. I state on my site that I'm a student. I'm looking into concepts that he's probably had years of experience with. There's no need for being derogatory is there? or is that the trademark of respect?
I've read Fletchers articles "review of reviewer" and also his article " a readers guide to old gear" they're fine. It doesn't give him the right to dump on me.
And of course I haven't invented the parametric eq either..

On a serious note... what do you think my premise is? Is it for vintage gear or against?
thanks
 
You simply might have misunderstood the general tone in here... It sounds a little rude at first (had the same problem when I arrived here -- especially as I'm no native speaker)... But keep in mind, he answered your questions and except the word 'dumbass' it's not too insulting (at least not on you)...

Personally, I assume that someone who does a research project on vintage gear must like vintage gear (I wouldn't wanna write about something I don't like)..

aXel
 
Your premise, whether you meant it to be or not, seems to be to show that vintage gear is not relevant. There is a certain snideness in the tone of your questions.

As Fletcher pointed out, by the way he is a considerable authority on vintage gear, these are all just tools.

Vintage gear's value is that many pieces are stakes in the ground, in terms of sound quality, that today's equipment needs to either match or exceed. If they do not equal the sonic character of the older gear they tend to be relegated as something less than desireable.

I think your survey would have more relevance if you quized people on their experiences in terms of what new gear rivals or exceeds gear from the past.

What your survey will end up giving you is that either vintage gear is not necessary or it is critical. Neither is absolutely true.
 
my premise

Middleman,
thanks for the reply.
"Your premise, whether you meant it to be or not, seems to be to show that vintage gear is not relevant." That is really not at all what I want to show or say. I think that vintage gear ( or lets be honest and talk about the sound and results you get by using them ) is valuable. It might come as a shock, but I bet Fletcher and I are in pretty close agreement on a lot of things... :confused:
"There is a certain snideness in the tone of your questions." , another reason I guess Fletcher and I are similar... :)
"As Fletcher pointed out, by the way he is a considerable authority on vintage gear, these are all just tools."
I knew that Fletcher knew his stuff a while ago, and I'm using the title "cult" of vintage audio to show how much ppl are willing to follow it and be uninformed about the actuality of it. He was writing about this in 96' so i'm sure he knows exactly what I mean.
"Vintage gear's value is that many pieces are stakes in the ground, in terms of sound quality, that today's equipment needs to either match or exceed. If they do not equal the sonic character of the older gear they tend to be relegated as something less than desireable."
I believe you are absolutely right, but where I'm trying to go is to see who answers "transparency and accuracy" and who answers "character of sound" because I think that if you're using that gear for "pure" reproduction you're foolling yourself. It is all about the effect, they are all just tools... but I've met dozens and dozens of ppl that are consumed by it, and in my opinion ultimatley forget the whole performance thing.
"I think your survey would have more relevance if you quized people on their experiences in terms of what new gear rivals or exceeds gear from the past."
I appreciate it, but I'm not out to find the best mic pre or best mic or whatever, I'm just interested in the "emperor's new clothes" and what the average listener thinks in relation to all of us audio geeks. I hope the survey can show me a trend in what "we" (and I use the term loosely...) believe and value in the studio.
 
jakeislistening said:
look Fletcher, thanks for the "present"...
You don't know me... and now, I don't care too much to know you.
I'm sorry if your wife left you, or if you are hiding your homophobia, or if you have some Vietnam flashbacks or whatever.... but rather than be a cynical and morose asshole (my opinion not Michael Coopers...) and shit all over my parade, maybe you could give constructive critisism about something you didnt' like. Look I get the feeling that you know your stuff and have been involved in the biz for a while,that's great...you gave me an address to check out "one of the moderators there actually did invent the parametric equalizer..." I've communicated with George Massenburg a bit... (but not to rant about it "...or hangin' with George and Harvey on R/E/P") and he's taken the survey and knows a ton if you ask me. I don't know if anyone from Mercenary Audio also invented the parametric EQ or anything as I've had three other ppl so far say that, but George is like a really nice guy. Someone that understands that the ppl you shit on while your are on top will be the ppl you meet on the way down. If you had bothered to read the other things I'd put on my site "ace" you would see that I believe performance is everything. I'm sorry if I intruded on your personal playground genius, but this wonderful internet is for everyone. Someday I hope you find your dessert island where everyone knows as much as you and you don't have to deal with anyone that isn't on the inside. Until then, try not to be such a dip shit to the other "seriously dumbass... " ppl that have to live on this planet with you.
But thank you for taking the survey! :)
Click to expand...

Oh gee whiz Jake! Remember that you are doing a RESEARCH project!!! As the primary researcher for your project, you have NO buisseness whatsoever placing these type of value judgements and getting offended at the feedback you get!!! Information is information! You need to get objective - because if you start thinking more objectively at what fletcher wrote, you will see that he has practically written a sub-section for the discussion of your report for you!!! - the part of your report that explains the limitations of your survey towards answering your stated objectives. You have thought to put that section in your project, haven't you? Every project has limitations - acknowledge and explain them, and your project will be more meaningful and successful. Ignore them or get defensive, and your research project simply loses credibility.

Good luck man!
 
Well . . . I don't exactly have as strong of feelings about this, obviously, as some of the other guys here do.

But I did abandon the survey midway, because the questions really aren't relevent, and there really are no good answers that I can give to them.

My problem with it all is that there are just too many generalizations being made. It's kind of like comparing old music to new music. I like some of the old stuff, and I like some of the new stuff, and I like it or dislike it for different reasons.

I happen to like Pink Floyd and the Beatles. I like them a lot, in fact. Does that mean I like old music? No, it just means I like those bands, and they happen to be old. I also like Wilco, and they are from Chicago. Does that mean I like Chicago bands? I like Radiohead, too, and their lead singer is named Thom. I suppose you could take that to mean I like bands with lead singers named Thom.

That wouldn't leave me with many bands, though, would it?

Look, people like what they like. Some of the stuff they like is old, and some of the stuff they like is new.
 
Teainthesahara...
thanks for the reply.
I definitely took everything that Fletcher had to say to heart, (objective heart that is...) and had planned to put a large section in my paper about that. My survey (and probably any one that you could do on this subject..) definitely has limitations, and this entire topic is so incredibly subjective. The questions by themselves may sound confusing or irrelevant as chessrock said, but they are to be taken as a whole, and are there to show trends. I'm not a statistician, nor am I working on a paper for the AES.
What I don't appreciate is being condescended to and called "seriously dumbass", so that's a personal thing, nothing to do with his impression of the research or the topic. Give me all the critisism in the world about the topic, questions, research, hypothesis, etc... just don't call me "ace" and be holier than thou. I definitely don't want to ignore anything that Fletcher and others have said or written, I'd just like to maintain civility.
 
BBS's that have their own dragon cave aren't likely to maintain civility ;)

aXel
 
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