super chunk vs. Panels

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greyharmonix

greyharmonix

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given that the amount of material is the same, from what i think i understand, you could build some sound absorbtion panels and put em up against corners and on walls and it would be the same as building a super chunk in the corners. Right?
 
Great question!

I think there are differing opinions on this. At least that's what I've found in my research.
I think that super chunks are better for low frequencies. How much better is a subject of some debate.
I have also heard that the air gap created by straddling a corner with a panel is an advantage over the super chunks. Again ..some debate there too.

I'm interested to hear what people think about this stuff. I'm getting ready to build some treatment and have been waffling between superchunks or panels.

The drawback with the superchunks is that they take more material to build. I'm thinking that I might build 4 inch thick bass traps with a OC 703 equivalent and then fill the air gap behind with the fluffy pink insulation.
I think this may be a good compromise between the two methods?:confused:

Hopefully some more experienced members can chime in with some advice. I'd love to hear it.
 
given that the amount of material is the same, from what i think i understand, you could build some sound absorbtion panels and put em up against corners and on walls and it would be the same as building a super chunk in the corners. Right?

I don think is exactly the same.
For an 8' ceiling, for example, 2 2'x4' 4" panels will cover an entire wall/wall corner, and if you go with 24" faced superchunks (cutting a panel in 8 triangular pieces) you need 50% more (3 panels).

At least in my experience, chunks have a better coeficient absorption below 80hz (what is ever welcome...)

Ciro
 
Great question!

I think there are differing opinions on this. At least that's what I've found in my research.
I think that super chunks are better for low frequencies. How much better is a subject of some debate.
I have also heard that the air gap created by straddling a corner with a panel is an advantage over the super chunks. Again ..some debate there too.

I'm interested to hear what people think about this stuff. I'm getting ready to build some treatment and have been waffling between superchunks or panels.

The drawback with the superchunks is that they take more material to build. I'm thinking that I might build 4 inch thick bass traps with a OC 703 equivalent and then fill the air gap behind with the fluffy pink insulation.
I think this may be a good compromise between the two methods?:confused:

Hopefully some more experienced members can chime in with some advice. I'd love to hear it.
Superchunks are generally considered better than a panel straddling the corner, regardless of the gap, however, they do cost considerably more.
 
For an 8' ceiling, for example, 2 2'x4' 4" panels will cover an entire wall/wall corner, and if you go with 24" faced superchunks (cutting a panel in 8 triangular pieces) you need 50% more (3 panels).
No, you need SIX panels. 1 panel 4" thick, yields 4 diagonals which when stacked equals 16". 6x16"=96"=8'.
In this case this is 200% more.:) Big difference.

Here is the difference is in performance. They were tested in a lab.
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=536
 

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No, you need SIX panels. 1 panel 4" thick, yields 4 diagonals which when stacked equals 16". 6x16"=96"=8'.
In this case this is 200% more.:) Big difference.

That´s the reason why I put my panels straddling the corners of my room.
 
Rick and everybody:
Sorry...:o

I have to redo my "In my experience" comment when I said that the 24" cut pattern (8 pieces per panel) http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=535 has better absorption (waterfall/bass decay below 80hz like I said) than the standard 4" panels treatment.For sure will coast half than the 32"(4 pieces) and probably will works well, but I don´t have THIS experience.

The only chunk type I have is a pretty strange one in the front wall/ceiling corner, in the end it´s covering a probably yet bigger area than the 32" pattern.That´s why It works so well in the sub lows(better than before, when were only a "standard" 4" corner panel)

My apologize again:)

Ciro
 
No, you need SIX panels. 1 panel 4" thick, yields 4 diagonals which when stacked equals 16". 6x16"=96"=8'.
In this case this is 200% more.:) Big difference.

Here is the difference is in performance. They were tested in a lab.
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=536

Interesting article. It looks like the superchunks are more effective but only barely. At least I think. Sabine units mean nothing to me. I know more is better but how much better is 6 sabine as compared to 5?

Looks like I'll be doing the 4 inch thick corner panels and stuffing a bunch of the pink insulation behind them. Doesn't seem to be worth the extra cost for super chunks.

Thanks for the link Rick!
 
as I understand it, MORE panels are better than a couple thicker ones...like super chunks. In other words, build panels to straddle the corners if it allows more panels elsewhere. $ and material no object, build the chunks for the corners, as they do perform better for the low freqs.
 
how much better is 6 sabine as compared to 5?
Ok, here is what a SABIN means. ONE Sabin(Sabine?) is EQUAL to
to a one foot square OPEN window. In other words, one square foot of PERFECT ABSORPTION....the amount of sound, REGARDLESS of frequency, that goes through the window, NEVER to return. This is why ABSORPTION COEFFECIENTS are applied to a sample of material after testing instead of ratings in SABINES, because materials NEVER absorb EQUALLY across the sonic spectrum. Not only that, but because of the WAVELENGTHS of LOW FREQUENCY SOUND, there isn't a TESTING LAB in the world that can measure absorption below 125hz. Thats why all Absorption coeffecients ratings only go down to 100 to 125hz. There is simply no way to measure absorption at frequencys below this threshold. At least from my understanding. There may be a better way to express this, but you should get my drift anyway.:)



In other words, build panels to straddle the corners if it allows more panels elsewhere. $ and material no object, build the chunks for the corners, as they do perform better for the low freqs.
I totally agree. Thats why I mostly show panels straddleing corners for short term projects like HyPe's, or for people who's budgets are limited...like MINE:rolleyes::D

Besides, for projects like BOOTHS, there is simply no room, so I suggest lining the complete inside with 2" or 4" thick if you have room, and a layer as deep as you can afford on the ceiling or even straddling the wall/ceiling intersections if you have room. So what if it sounds dead? A booth offers NO acoustic "ambience" whatsoever, and in fact will be the WORST sound you can get without absorption. Well, thats my .02 anyway.

Doesn't seem to be worth the extra cost for super chunks.
My point exactly. Unless you can afford the REST of the chain as well...like mic's, reference monitors, etc etc. :)


BTW, while we're at it, there is somethine else you might be interested in. Its called the "edge effect". This is a well known phenomena in acoustic circles. The basic idea is this. IF, you have a set amount of absorption material, say a panel 8'x8' feet, you can achieve MORE ABSORPTION in SABINES if you cut this panel into 1' or 2' squares and mount them in a checkerboard or spaced pattern vs using the panel as ONE piece. This is because of DIFFRACTION at the edges. I'm certainly no acoustic scientist, but from my understanding, DIFFRACTION at the edges will contribute to absorption, EVEN THOUGH the material may be rated at a certain ABSORBTION COEFFIECIENT per frequency band. However, even when testing the material, DIFFRACTION occurs, which results in absorption coeffecients GREATER THAN 1...which seems impossible...but....Diffraction is the reason.

Not only that, but when absorption material is mounted on a wall in a "patchwork" pattern, this will "somewhat" contribute to DIFFUSION as well. How much? Who knows. I certainly don't but thats what I understand from reading the Master Handbook of Acoustics.
HENCE, HyPe, the use of "patchwork" at your rear sidewalls. ie...more bang for the buck! :)
 
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there isn't a TESTING LAB in the world that can measure absorption below 125hz. Thats why all Absorption coeffecients ratings only go down to 100 to 125hz. There is simply no way to measure absorption at frequencys below this threshold.

There are labs in Europe and Canada certified to 80 Hz. It's also possible to measure absorption at very low frequencies reliably in a bedroom if you know what you're doing. Full explanation here:

Alternative Test Methods for Acoustic Treatment Products

Note that using ETF or REW in a bedroom to get absolute data is not described there, but it can still be done. You just need a quiet environment and a way to measure the decay times at various modal frequencies.

Even when labs are not certified at very low frequencies, that doesn't mean the data suddenly becomes useless below 100 Hz or whatever. The lower you go, the more sample material is needed.

--Ethan
 
:eek::D Thats why I say "I'm no expert". But I think they get my drift here Ethan.:) Since no one else had popped in here to give an explanation, I do the best I know. YOU are in the business and have access to the latest info on this stuff and its appreciated when you show up and KICK MY ASS!!:D

Just kidden. You know what I mean. Maybe it takes somebody making a stab at this stuff to get the experts to take the time to set the record straight. I learn that way too. ;)

Anyway, thanks for the update/clarification Ethan.
 
I'd never kick your ass, even if I was PO'd at you which will never happen. Plus, as I recall you're even older than me. :D

--Ethan
 
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