suggest a decent but inexpensive PA for band practice

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Hi_Flyer

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I'm looking for something relatively inexpensive, maybe no more than $300 total, including monitors...its just for band practice in the basement, four channels would be plenty. I only need enough power/volume for vocal mics without excessive feedback...

would 100 watts per side be enough?

I was looking at this one, although its a bit more than I wanted to spend
http://www.music123.com/Kustom-PA-Profile-One-PA-System-630506-i1153432.Music123

I don't mind spending a few extra bucks for quality, but as always, I want bang for the buck.
 
By monitors, do you simply mean the PA cabinets? "Monitors" in PA-speak means those smaller speakers that sit at the front of the stage and face the performer. Just an FYI :)

As for a good, cheap system, there are a number of threads regarding this, and a simple search for "system" will yield some positive results:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/search.php?searchid=1255288

I personally use two Nady 1x15" cabinets with an external power amp, and run a separate mixer into the power amp. Even with a powered mixer, you would still be lookin at more than 300 bucks. Looks like one of those smaller packaged deals looks like your best bet, if its just for practice in a small space.
 
What kind of music do you play?
If it's loud rock with a drummer (or anything fast/aggressive)- Ive found that more power is necessary than these little units usually provide. I've used similar units by Rouge and Squier.

Remember - 100watts says nothing about how loud this system will be.
 
yeah sorry, I meant PA speakers, not monitors... I'll try searching on "System" too.

I play loud aggressive rock with a pretty hard-hitting drummer, so yeah, I need some volume. Just for vox though, this PA would probably never see any instruments. It might see the occasional small room/bar/basement show, but mainly just for rehearsal.

How does wattage relate to volume exactly? It was always my understanding that more watts=more power, so in some sense there is a correlation, no? Of course I understand that not all 200 watt systems will have the same perceived volume.

so then, what other factors are there to consider in shopping for a LOUD practice PA? speaker size? since I don't to crank bass through it, how big should the speaker be?
 
Hi_Flyer said:
yeah sorry, I meant PA speakers, not monitors... I'll try searching on "System" too.

I play loud aggressive rock with a pretty hard-hitting drummer, so yeah, I need some volume. Just for vox though, this PA would probably never see any instruments. It might see the occasional small room/bar/basement show, but mainly just for rehearsal.
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Even just for vox - it's my humble opinion that this unit will not do much for you. Even of you read all the reviews - they all say it's great for "coffee house" settings and open mic nights. That's a low volume system.

Hi_Flyer said:
How does wattage relate to volume exactly? It was always my understanding that more watts=more power, so in some sense there is a correlation, no? Of course I understand that not all 200 watt systems will have the same perceived volume.
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I see it like this: In the world of amplifiers - doubling the power (i.e: 50 watts -> 100 watts or 200watts -> 400 watts) only increases the decibel volume (in theory) by 3 db.
3 decibels is basically the smallest amount of what the human ear hears a change in volume. (so the average ear doesn't hear an increase in volume if it goes up 1 or 2 decibels).
This is taking nothing in consideration of the quality parts used in the amplifier, or the design, or the Speakers (which are a hug part of the PA equation).
If you put two different brand 100 watt PA heads next to each other and hooked them up to the same speakers - you will get very different DB readings from each. One will be louder.

Hi_Flyer said:
so then, what other factors are there to consider in shopping for a LOUD practice PA? speaker size? since I don't to crank bass through it, how big should the speaker be?
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The amplifier pushes the speakers. The speakers have to be powerful enough to carry the load (or they will start to break up). The most effective PA systems Ive worked with all have Speakers that are rated for much higher wattage than the amplifier is capable of pushing (so a 100watt head can push 2x150 watt speakers instead of 2x50 watt speakers).
More speakers is also a good way of increasing your PA's presence.

If your only going to be driving vocals - I would go any higher than 12" speakers - but other may have more opinions on that.
 
Hate to burst your bubble but any system that will keep up with rock volumes and not sound like a distorted piece of shit is going to cost closer to a grand new and that is just entry level. All those bullshit PA head packages are garbage. In my experience if you WANT 100 watts of clean sound then you'll NEED at least double that in power ratings.

If your doing sceamo shit then don't worry about it, distort away. :p

The larger JBL Eons are pretty versatile and you can plug a mic straight into them. Or look for a good used Crown or QSC power amp in the 400-800 watt range and find some decent 12" or bigger JBL or EV cabs. You can find some decent used deals if you look around. Try to buy less quantity and more quality and get a system that can grow as your budget allows.
Anything less will just piss you off.
 
You might want to look into a Yamaha powered mixer. They sound pretty good, and used ones that are 200 watts per side can usually be had on ebay for about $200. I have one of these (emx640) and it does fine for my little band. It will get your vocals up over an acoustic (non-miced) drumset with ease. And they are made well and easy to operate. In our scenario, acoustic guitar and vocals run through the Yamaha, and sometimes we mic an electric guitar amp. Bass runs through it's own amp, (bass is non-directional anyway) and we seldom play anywhere big enough to mic the drums. If we do play somewhere that large, usually a bigger PA is provided anyway. However, we are not a LOUD band.
 
Getting a pair of speaker stands to raise the speakers to head level will help alot no matter what system you get.

F.S.
 
TexRoadkill said:
Hate to burst your bubble but any system that will keep up with rock volumes and not sound like a distorted piece of shit is going to cost closer to a grand new and that is just entry level. All those bullshit PA head packages are garbage. In my experience if you WANT 100 watts of clean sound then you'll NEED at least double that in power ratings.

If your doing sceamo shit then don't worry about it, distort away. :p

The larger JBL Eons are pretty versatile and you can plug a mic straight into them. Or look for a good used Crown or QSC power amp in the 400-800 watt range and find some decent 12" or bigger JBL or EV cabs. You can find some decent used deals if you look around. Try to buy less quantity and more quality and get a system that can grow as your budget allows.
Anything less will just piss you off.
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hmmm... not what I wanted to hear, but still, I think a system that will cost a grand is MUCH more than I need. Yeah, I don't really play screamo, but the stuff I do tends to be geared toward trashy rock/punk stuff so the vox need to be there but they don't have to be THAT loud. the system we are used to is pretty wretched, so I think something in the $300-$500 range would be a big improvement. although, maybe I will need to spend a little more than I was originally hoping to spend...

those yamaha powered mixers sound interesting, I think my buddy uses one for his basement band practice, I'll have to ask him how he likes it. I think 200 watts per side will do if I get speakers that can handle it. any more speaker recommendations? I'm gonna check out some JBLs...
 
Hi_Flyer said:
hmmm... not what I wanted to hear, but still, I think a system that will cost a grand is MUCH more than I need. Yeah, I don't really play screamo, but the stuff I do tends to be geared toward trashy rock/punk stuff so the vox need to be there but they don't have to be THAT loud. the system we are used to is pretty wretched, so I think something in the $300-$500 range would be a big improvement. although, maybe I will need to spend a little more than I was originally hoping to spend...

those yamaha powered mixers sound interesting, I think my buddy uses one for his basement band practice, I'll have to ask him how he likes it. I think 200 watts per side will do if I get speakers that can handle it. any more speaker recommendations? I'm gonna check out some JBLs...
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Just my two cents. First, if you buy one of these buy used! there are tons of these out there used. Second, there's a reason there are tons of these out there used. You cant upgrade them effectively unless they have a unpowered output and that will only get you so far. I highly recomend you buy seperate components for that reason. IE small used mixer $100.00, used power amp $125, 12inch and horn passive speakers decent used $200.00. Everything on the list I just gave is usefull in other ways in an expanded pa system. 12inch and horn speakers can become monitors, a smaller amp can be used for monitors or to run horns, board keeps on working on a bigger PA.

I'd think about it.


F.S.
 
yeah good points... however, I don't foresee ever really see me needing a big PA. Recording gear, yep, but not the stuff for live sound reinforcement. A mixer could see double duty though, and I have been thinking about grabbing something like an old Tascam M35 for some additional preamps on my DAW and/or recording with an 8 track reel to reel since those old Tascam mixers go for pretty cheap on ebay these days...

so what about powered speakers? are these worth considering? Could I simply hook them right up to a mixer like a Tascam M35?

If I go with passive speakers and a seperate power amp, what kind of power can I get for $100 (on the used market)? what brand/model should I look at/for? I know next to nothing about power amps...
 
Hi_Flyer said:
yeah good points... however, I don't foresee ever really see me needing a big PA. Recording gear, yep, but not the stuff for live sound reinforcement. A mixer could see double duty though, and I have been thinking about grabbing something like an old Tascam M35 for some additional preamps on my DAW and/or recording with an 8 track reel to reel since those old Tascam mixers go for pretty cheap on ebay these days...

so what about powered speakers? are these worth considering? Could I simply hook them right up to a mixer like a Tascam M35?

If I go with passive speakers and a seperate power amp, what kind of power can I get for $100 (on the used market)? what brand/model should I look at/for? I know next to nothing about power amps...
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Powered speakers: I have only ever heard the mackie powered speakers and they sounded awsome but, are not cheap at all. I would not be shy about buying them from a decent company. If they have dual amps inside they have the potential to sound much better than a convntional cabinet being run with no external crossover.

Amp: I just sold a Crown XLS202 amp for $125 today. I saw one for sale on craigs list the other day for $100.00. That is 250w per channel at 2 ohm, 200w per channel at 4 ohm, 145 per channel at 8 ohm. Pushes two 15 and horn cabs just fine. So 12inch cabs would be no problem.

F.S.
 
I own a Stages PA system and it is so obscure, you'll not find it when searching...:eek:

The head is 60W and the speaker cabs are 120W.

It would work for practice...just can't perform as loud as you would onstage...but it is practice ya know...if one needs more power than that...then why even invest in a 'practice system'.

Before spending 1000 on practice gear...I would invest in some 'big power' gigging gear...damn...:D
 
i had one of those little kustom pa's in my back room about 6 years ago. it was pretty disappointing and i got rid of it after trying a feeback box and graphic eq. it would feedback at pretty low volume with a single sm57. definitely not useful for a rock band rehearsal.

my suggestion is to get one decent speaker cab and a amp to push it or an active cab. if you have to save a little more money it will be worth it. a quality speaker is essential for getting decent quality without feedback. i've practiced in a small room with a single ev cab (it was a nice cab) and a 80 watt power amp for vocals. zero feedback and it sounded fine. stay away from the cheapo speakers.
 
travelin travis said:
i've practiced in a small room with a single ev cab (it was a nice cab) and a 80 watt power amp for vocals. zero feedback and it sounded fine. stay away from the cheapo speakers.
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just one cab? interesting thought. I guess if one is not quite enough, I can save up and buy another to match, in the meantime I will have something to get by (it can't be worse than the crap PA we are using now).

only 80 watts huh? seems underpowered, but I guess its more important to have the quality speaker than a ton of power.

How about Carvin speakers? I was looking at these:
http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=LS1002&CID=LS

what is the deal with power handling rating? those carvins say 200watt continuous, 400peak. I'm assuming that means it can handle up to 400 watt spikes or transients or something?

thanks, i appreciate all of the advice.
 
Hi_Flyer said:
only 80 watts huh? seems underpowered, but I guess its more important to have the quality speaker than a ton of power.
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80 watts or a 100 watts - it would make little or no difference (remember - in decibel world - doubling the power only generates a 3db increase). The amp design and amp parts play a huge part in how loud it will be - as well as the speakers.
Hi_Flyer said:
How about Carvin speakers? I was looking at these:
http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=LS1002&CID=LS

what is the deal with power handling rating? those carvins say 200watt continuous, 400peak. I'm assuming that means it can handle up to 400 watt spikes or transients or something?
Click to expand...
I've loved every piece of Carvin gear Ive ever used. Ive had a couple of their amps - and they were high quality.

And you are correct about the continuous and peak.
 
I use that exact Kustom PA myself and it is great for what I do. Of course what I do is an Acoustic Guitar and singing old folk/hippy music. Not really much loud needed in that. I think the reviews are spot on about it being great for a coffee house, it really works out fine for a nursing home gig too. Might be OK for the home stuff but my bet is that a pair of the Behringer EUROLIVE B212A (or B215A) Active Loudspeakers and a simple unpowered mixer would work better for you. The Behringer stuff isn't the sturdiest stuff in the world but it sounds OK and these get great reviews and have been selling like hotcakes. If you are careful moving them around you will get your money's worth out of them...

MF has the 12" 450 Watt version for $199 or the 15" for $249 shipped, that's a lot of vocal for a basement or garage, plenty to get above a handfull of amps and drum set...

In a pinch you can just plug an SM58 mic into the speaker and holler at it modified by the onboard 2-band EQ, can;t get much cheaper for a PA than that. If you get all famous and rich you can always lay them on the floor and use them as monitors for your Mackie system...

BSR
 
Good choice on the Carvin for live sound. A friend of mine installs sound in small churches and uses Carvin PA gear exclusive with zero complaints, and saves $$$ in the process.

Good luck, Charlie
 
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