Suggest a complete newbie package

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SergeantNoob

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Hey there guys,

So I am a considering lately whether or not to try and record myself. I have been taking guitar and vocal lessons for less than 6 months, and would like to hear my progress now and again. I would also like to record songs that I have mastered and improve from there. I have a relatively powerful gaming pc, and a capable windows laptop, but no mac. I play on an acoustic and electric guitar, no real preference at this point. I was thinking before of getting an AT2020 USB mic, but am now wondering what else I can do. If i choose to go the XLR route, I would need a pre-amp right? What else do I need to know? Also, my pc operates on onboard sound. Budget would be a main concern, as I am not sure how much of a hobby this would be. Playing guitar and singing would mostly be a lifetime hobby though now at this point.
 
Now at this point indeed.

There are a lot of different options. What it boils down to is that recording gear costs money. USB microphones are generally quite limited in some ways when and if you reach a point where you might like to upgrade. The usual advice here is to avoid them, but they can be useful to a point until you outgrow it. An alternative might be a small interface and a separate low impedance, XLR type mic. The advantage would be that if you don't like either the mic or interface, it can be upgraded as you progress without having to replace everything. Plus you can probably get something that can allow you to hook up decent headphones for tracking your music and decent monitors to mix the stuff once you get to that level.

But it will cost a bit more.

The recording process has a learning curve of its own aside from your musical pursuits. There's a lot of gear to choose from and a lot of options that will yield varying levels of quality at different price points.


How much money do you have?


Another option might be to download something like Audacity. It's a free audio multitrack recording/wave editing software thing. You'll also need some kind of microphone. A few years ago I went to the dollar store and bought a computer mic. It's a skinny white plastic thing that plugs into the mic input of a computer with onboard sound. Cost me a buck. And it works. Your recordings through this kind of setup will not sound like they were produced at Abbey Road Studios. At this point, actually going to Abbey Road won't help much.

Then again, the USB mic might work just fine if that's what you want. The computer mic might work fine too for what you need of it, and allow you to focus on playing and singing instead of spending money. You're likely to outgrow either of these things if you stick with it and get more serious about it, but one of these options is a hundred times cheaper.
 
The introduction section linked is a worthwhile first read.

Now, some specifics. There's no single right answer for you and none of us can know your financial status.

However, what I can do is list some of the things you should consider.

First, USB mics: They seem to be a good deal but, depending on where you want to go, can be limiting. Strangely, one of the biggest issues can be monitoring. Since you do vocals, electric guitar and acoustic guitar, I guess it's fair to assume you may wish record a series of individual tracks and mix them together. To do this, you need a facility to listen to what's recorded while you're playing a new track. As simple as this sounds, it can introduce you to a world of pain and frustration with USB mics due to something called latency.

Basically, with many/most USB mics, to do the monitoring mentioned above, you have to use your computer's inbuilt sound card. This, in turn, means that to hear what you're actually recording, your new stuff has to do a round trip via your computer and this introduces delays.

"Real" interfaces get around this with a feature called "direct monitoring" which lets you monitor a mix of computer playback plus your new stuff done BEFORE the computer. A few USB mics have headphone and monitor sockets but most don't--the only one I know for sure is the Blue Yeti. There may well be others since I'm not a USB mic expert--but the monitoring issue is something to check in the specs of any mic you consider.

Finally on USB mics, the maximum usable cable length with USB 2 is 5 meters. This is enough for most things--but I mention it in case you want to put your computer in one room and mic in another or something.

The other thing to consider is how you're going to handle the electric guitar recording. If you're going to put your mic in front of the amp, then the USB mic could work. However, if you want an ability to plug the guitar straight into your computer, then you're back to considering an interface, this time with an instrument level socket.

As you might have guessed by now, my advice (if you can afford it) would be an XLR mic and a separate interface with the right facilities. However, if budget pushes you in the direction of a USB mic, make sure you go into it with your eyes open and get one with the appropriate monitoring facilities.

Good luck and have fun whichever way you go!
 
Great replies, appreciate them.

You guys seem to be anti-USB, and I was wondering how good would I have to get to outgrow them? Since the general consensus is to use an xlr mic and an interface, any recommendations? When using an interface, what features would I need? What gets added as it goes up in price? Also, would I need to install a dedicated sound card in my pc? Also, I notice a handful of interface come packaged with softwares, would those be ideal?
 
Well, to take some of your specific questions:

Features: Depends a bit on you and how you see yourself progressing. If it was me, I'd probably look for an interface with two mic/line inputs and phantom power to drive a condenser mic. There are some slightly cheaper with a single mic input and a second instrument input that might suit you but, noticing you play acoustic guitar, there may well come a time that you want to get a second mic and try stereo miking your acoustic. (BTW, that's my favourite technique for recording acoustic guitar.) You'll need outputs for monitoring and also make sure it has the aforementioned direct monitoring. Try to find one with ASIO drivers because that will solve some latency issues. If the list sounds daunting, don't worry. I've just described most basic interfaces.

What gets added as you go up in price? Well, mainly extra inputs. It's not uncommon to want to add more so you can record your band all at once. This doesn't sound like an issue for you. It's also arguable that the audio quality (better mic pre amp, better A to D converters) can go up and that can be true for some high priced specialist stuff. However, even the entry level stuff is pretty darn good these days and I wouldn't worry too much until you get hooked and start drooling over $3000 Neumann mics.

Dedicated sound card in you PC? Nope. That's what the USB is.

Packaged software? It can get you started but, if you read the fine print, it's usually a "lite" version to get you hooked and spend lots of money on the full version. By all means give it a try...but you may be better in the longer term with something like Audacity (free) or, especially, Reaper which is free to try and cheap to buy the full featured version of.

Now, specific recommendations: Well, everybody has personal favourites and they will all be pretty good. In the end, it might come down to what the best deals are this week at your local (or online) supplier. Me? I'd recommend THIS INTERFACE and THIS MICROPHONE. (Don't worry about the supplier--it's one I happen to have bookmarked but, in the UK, likely not much good to you!) Or, if you want to save money, look at the M Audio Fast track basic interface (similar but only one mic) and the SE2000 mic.

....but you'll get tons of suggestions now!
 
My suggestion for an entry level phase is:

M-AUDIO - Fast Track - Record Guitar and Vocals on Your Computer this one comes with Protools SE which is great DAW option to begin
M-AUDIO - Fast Track Pro - 4 x 4 Mobile USB Audio/MIDI Interface with Preamps this on I have and is just fantastic. Comes with Ableton live lite.
Product: US-144MKII | TASCAM

For a mic, my choice would be a Shure SM58 for your vocals, if the guitar is acoustic, then the shure sm57 will work great.

The three options, interface and the two mics will go around $340
 
if you get a little usb audio interface device, that will act as your computers sound card. get a big ol pair of headphones, a couple decent mics and a little usb audio interface and you'll be in business. one of the interfaces that come bundled would be great to start on but there are alot of other DAWs (digital audio workstations) out there that are great at little to now cost. everybody has their own opinions as far as brands go but a little setup like this could cost you as little as 250. you could eventually grab a pair of little studio monitors and upgrade your DAW and mics and still be able to work with your audio usb device. do some shopping around online (musicians friend, guitar center, sweetwater, amazon etc.) and see what might be in your price range. there are some awesome little starter devices out there if you're willing to look for them
 
TheBones said:
if you get a little usb audio interface device, that will act as your computers sound card. get a big ol pair of headphones, a couple decent mics and a little usb audio interface and you'll be in business.
Click to expand...

Er, that's two interfaces! :)
 
If I get one with two mic inputs, would I lose the ability to just plug in the electric into an instrument input? Also, even if I get the 4 channel interface, I might settle for one mic to start off with, and either record vocals and acoustic separately or in one sitting. What would be a good mic for both? Aside from the free software, would you guys recommend still purchasing a standalone DAW, and what would it be? Friends just record on Garageband, sadly no mac for me.
 
Software: Reaper. Free to try out, $60 to buy.

Just 1 mic, go with the Shure SM57. The 58 is the same thing with a ball on the end. Get a pop filter for recording vocals.

A typical interface that has an instrument input will let you plug a mic into the second input at the same time, that's not an issue.
 
SergeantNoob said:
If I get one with two mic inputs, would I lose the ability to just plug in the electric into an instrument input? Also, even if I get the 4 channel interface, I might settle for one mic to start off with, and either record vocals and acoustic separately or in one sitting. What would be a good mic for both? Aside from the free software, would you guys recommend still purchasing a standalone DAW, and what would it be? Friends just record on Garageband, sadly no mac for me.
Click to expand...

It'll depend on the interface. Some have dual connectors that you can plug either a mic or instrument into, others have separate connectors. However, with two inputs, you should be able to do mic in one and instrument in the other. You'll need to read the specs or, if you have problems, just pop back in here and ask about the unit you're considering.

For mics, the SM57 that's been mentioned would be okay for either but not ideal for anything. If it was me, I'd go with a basic condenser since I prefer that sound on both voice and acoustic guitar. I like a good amount of detail in both and the SM57 seems (to my ears) to lack that. However this is getting into the realms of personal taste and even if you get into the hobby, it'll always be useful to have a 57 or two in the cupboard.

For the DAW, if you get software bundled, why not give it a try and, at the same time, get the free trial of Reaper and see which you like. A main thing in choosing a DAW is being comfortable with the User Interface and everyone is a bit different. In money terms though, Reaper is hard to beat at $60 for the fully paid version.
 
alright, so far i gather that it is much better to go for an xlr mic via a usb interface, both for latency and future upgradability. This route also save me the trouble of not getting a sound card. Is Reaper a good one based on popular opinion, pros and cons of others, also will I have problems transferring tracks from one DAW to another? As far as interface goes, an M-audio fast track pro has been suggested, comments? Also, I am torn between a dynamic mic like the sm57 mentioned and condenser ones. I've seen Audio-technika 20's series, as well as Rodes, etc. What would be good models to check out?
 
Transferring tracks from one DAW to another is easiest by rendering to WAV first, then importing.
 
Transferring tracks is easy if you work entirely in wave for everything. However, you can't really transfer session data (things like panning, mix levels, effects, etc.) unless you render those things and transfer the track with such things already added.

But as long as we're talking the raw tracks, you can open waves pretty much anywhere.
 
These answers are good - but seriously you just need to choose a budget. You say this is probably going to be a lifetime pursuit so you might as well get something decent. But it all depends on your budget - so whats your budget?
 
How much would be considered a decent start up equipment??
 
I was thinking something along the price points of at2020/2035, rode nt1-a, shure sm57 for the mic. For the interface, the m-audio fast track pro mentioned, as well as the tascam us144mkII I've seen online. Open to suggestions though, and if they go up in price, it has to be justifiable. Thanks so much guys.
 
could always get a 2 inch 24 track reel to reel tape recorder and a handful of ribbon mics :P

Nah but in all seriousness, take you're time and look at you're options as opposed to recommendations, try stuff out,

Theres more options than just computers for recording, NOT that i'm an analogue head, but IF i knew what i know now when I was starting out I'd have made a few better purchases.

maybe write an action plan for the future, start asking if you're only ever gonna record yourself or maybe someday you're friends / colleagues / strangers etc, do you have a particular style you'd like to go towards, and most of all what you want from you're recordings, is it just to review yourself is it to release songs for you tube, is it to make an album is it to start and produce you're own band etc.

but anyway all that scary stuff aside if you're stateside check zzounds / musiciansfriend if you're here in europe (YAY) check out thomann.de and just keep poking around here :) oh Oh OH! most important thing I can recommend is get a book, a good book, Home recording for musicians for dummies is the best i can suggest, It'll really help you out
 
The m-audio fast track pro wich comes with Ableton Live Lite and if you just need one mic, then I would go for the shure sm58
 
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