Subtractive EQ on Piano

[TalismanRich]

I'm questioning why applying EQ to any particular note would be based on the key. It's not as if that key only uses that note. If you are working in D, would you put the dip at D3? The notes of the D major scale are D E F# G A B C#. What about the other notes in the scale?

The premise makes no sense to me.

 

[Scoopz]

I'm questioning why applying EQ to any particular note would be based on the key. It's not as if that key only uses that note. If you are working in D, would you put the dip at D3? The notes of the D major scale are D E F# G A B C#. What about the other notes in the scale?

The premise makes no sense to me.

Rich,

I'm not an expert on the theory of sound, the over tone series, and the like.
I have a somewhat firm understanding of how it works.

2 things I'll be putting up here in the future
1) Audio files that demonstrate what I'm finding
2) An attempt to at least try to rationalize this, because it does somewhat make sense to me, but I got to get it down on paper.

But it's the Holiday weekend, so don't expect anything for a few days

 

[TalismanRich]

But it's the Holiday weekend, so don't expect anything for a few days

I can dig it! My butt will be firmly planted in the recliner on Sunday. There's a little race in Monaco, another little race in Indianapolis, and a slightly longer race in Charlotte. That should take me from morning to evening.

 

[DM60]

I can dig it! My butt will be firmly planted in the recliner on Sunday. There's a little race in Monaco, another little race in Indianapolis, and a slightly longer race in Charlotte. That should take me from morning to evening.

I have brewed about 2 gallons of Gin a few weeks ago (converted corn and botanicals. pretty smooth), that I will be sampling all weekend. I proofed it to 80, I want to get a buzz, not smashed Weekend planned.

 

[rob aylestone]

I had to pop back in here with something I found that kind of shows how loud stuff can mix with quieter stuff on stage and still be really clean. Loads of mics on the go - and lots of SM57s, so not expensive kit - but everything blends really well, and there are some trumpet bits that build and build without spill being an issue at all - because it's done right. Oddly, I found this band because I was searching for old stuff - This band were my first experience of a real complex recording session back in the 70s, in a cramped and dingy studio where I 'helped' set up some mics. I guess most of the band members then aren't with us any more. In particular, the snare drum has a great sound, yet the piano burried in there also works.

 

[grimtraveller]

To answer your question, what am I trying to do with this?
Simple, put something online adequate enough for people to listen to
It doesn't have to be perfect, but it does spread the word of God and Jesus!!!

I don't know if you're still about, Scoopz, but as a fellow Christian who also does a bit of home recording, I think your priorities are upside down.
And understandably so. We, as Christians, have been conned for so long into thinking that any old schlub {be it a song, album, performance, book, movie, cartoon, TV show, whatever the medium} is OK to put out there for people that don't believe in Christ as long as the name of Jesus is mentioned. Or it doesn't matter if a singer isn't singing in tune, God hears their heart. Or if the drummer is all over the place. They're worshipping ! Or the trumpeter is so indisciplinedly loud that their notes drown out everything else. He's doing it for the Lord !
It is, my friend, time for a serious wake-up call.

Most Christian art simply doesn't get looked at, read, watched or listened to. Because most of it is dreck. Way too many of its practitioners display such a woeful lack of understanding of their fellow human beings. If God displayed the same kind of understanding of people that we too often do, he wouldn't be God.
Very few people that don't already follow Christ will put on a piece of music in order to be preached to or at. Some may tolerate the message if, and only if, the song knocks their socks off ! Many won't be in the slightest bit interested ~ but they may listen further and more than once, if the music is good. And if you are in a position to mix the song, then you are in a position to make it attractive. You actually have the power to make a great performance sound abysmal.

So if someone comes along here and says, "What a crappy mix" I might agree, but would respond by saying are you getting the message?

When you say your point of focus is worship, that tells me that like the overwhelming majority of Christians on this earth, you don't really know "what" worship is and you equate it with music, music that's played in Church or worship services. The biblical writers use a shed load of words that English translators have translated using one word ¬> worship. That's poor. There is nothing that you do in your life with God that is not an act of worship.

That means, you should pay attention to doing it properly.

Most of the guys on this site aren't Christians, but it's not a "Christianity" site. It's a home recording one. And you will, if you open up your ears and your mind, glean a lot of tremendous advice and ideas that will help unstick you from where you are currently stuck.
I played with lots of Church outfits as a bassist, guitarist, percussionist and singer {Lord help us !} for 25 years. It was actually quite rare for people to really care about how they actually sounded. Often, congregations were impressed by anyone that could hold a mic, blow a sax, strum a guitar or hit a drum and do a loud exciting fill or twangy bass slap. But those of us that were actually musically inclined used to in our hearts. I wouldn't have paid to hear most of the outfits I played with. It being free was no consolation. When I used to run things though, I made sure we were rehearsed and disciplined, that we knew how to blend. When people didn't know how to sing in tune or play their instrument, they never got in. I got told off for it and people complained, but my philosophy then, as now is "don't suck then justify it by saying it was for the Lord."

As an aside, if you read certain biblical passages, God wasn't beyond telling the musicians how much he hated their stuff !

You need to start making good music, delivered, so the listener can enjoy it {even if they don't, at least you were trying to create good music}, your priority. Because you should be a worshipper of God regardless of what you're doing or thinking or saying. Had a long tiring day, and you're tired on the bus or train and you want to sit down on that final seat and rest your dogs ? Show what you think of God and let that other person take the last seat, and stand.
That's an attitude of worship. Especially when that is your norm.

I would like to offer a challenge then as well.
I can send anybody who wishes a set of my raw files.
I'd like to see/hear what the experts here can do with the raw in 2 hours

You see, this is another area where it seems to me your priorities are the wrong way round. What would actually happen, if you took 7 or 8 hours to do a good sounding mix that you can think about ? Would anyone spontaneously combust ? Would you get arrested and thrown into jail ? Would you be fined two years wages ? Would war break out in Australia ?
I've said enough. But let me leave you with this to think about. What do you think is more likely to give the message you want to get out there a fairer hearing; a substandard piece of tosh that you approach with an "anyhow" {as my friend Esther used to say} attitude or some great sounding music that is well rehearsed, well played, well-balanced, well recorded and well mixed ? Something that might have taken some hard work and a lot of time but, once finished, remains almost forever ?

 

[rob aylestone]

When Soundcraft discovered that the majority of their analogue large format mega expensive mixers were being bought by churches, they realised that 'worship' had taken a big quality jump. I'm easy going about religion, and never look down or even laugh at people who have string views, and I often work for religious groups when they need help. There is with some, a sort of excuse for poor quality music. Average or worse players, with average equipment doing an average event with average production values, because it's worship. Sort of an excuse for tackiness. I really hate that. Same thing with those horrible charity shows where they're awful, but for charity.

If you do anything in this world, do it the best you can. Surely, the best performance, the best recording and the best post production should be the aim in anything we do. If people get in the way of that, to make the end better, fix it. Once I got known for doing recordings, I felt I had the leeway to put mics in places I hadn't before, and to also 'manage' people into places where their awful voice would not spoil the product. Everyone knew they were bad, and didn't know all the words, but the ones they did know they did with gusto. I spotted these people, told them I needed to put a mic on them as they were important, so moved them to row three, at the end, furthest from the main mics and gave them a mic to themselves that wasn't used. everyone happy! The secret is not telling anyone.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

What is the purpose of 'Christian Music'? Perhaps it is to con non-believers into signing up.
I can't see that working.
I once saw a TV documentary about the heavy metal band WASP. Blackie Lawless would pray before each performance.
They were not highly regarded by the 'Washington Wives'. The lyrics though, carried a moral message, targeted at the audience.

 

[grimtraveller]

What is the purpose of 'Christian Music'? Perhaps it is to con non-believers into signing up

Well, there have been many strands of "Christian music" over the centuries. Hymns, songs of faithful and personal expression, etc. In the recording era, many Christians have been impacted by our respective cultures and moves, particularly in the area of music. And because personal and self-expression is de rigueur when it comes to popular music, it stands to reason that sooner or later, Christian artists would express themselves in much the same way as everyone else in the culture.
I think it's unnecessarily cynical to say

Perhaps it is to con non-believers into signing up

because that implies that from the start, it is a deceptive move on the part of the artist. Yes, many Christian artists feel that they want to reach their peers and anyone else with a particular message, and they use what they think is the language of the culture {ie, popular music} in an attempt to achieve this. It comes from genuine motives and concern. That much of the art itself is lame and poorly thought through and often crappily executed and bland shouldn't equate to its practitioners being charlatans. You may not agree with what they believe, but at least be open-minded to their motivations. And to the fact that they don't rubbish and bad-mouth you if you choose not to hear them or agree, unlike much discourse elsewhere.

 

[grimtraveller]

I can't see that working

It's been a debate in Christian circles for more than a century, believe it or not. The funny thing is that it has been known to work. Rarely immediately, but sometimes over a lengthy period of time. Like most things of this nature, it doesn't cause people to change, any more than hearing psychedelia caused people to start looking to take LSD or hearing reggae caused people to start looking at history and the slave trade or punk caused people to start wearing safety pins and spitting at each other.
But they all played a part in nourishing those mindsets.
It's a bit like when you get White, very English teenage boys converting to Islam and becoming radical hard-line Islamists and looking for ways to engage in acts of terror that actually kill people. How does that happen ? It doesn't happen overnight. It's rarely obvious. But many elements play a part.
Is it coincidental that so many young people that find themselves in prison are aficionados of Hip-Hop, of a strand that regularly talks of violence and rebellion the way pop songs peddle "love" ?

 

[Farview]

What is the purpose of 'Christian Music'? Perhaps it is to con non-believers into signing up.
I can't see that working.
I once saw a TV documentary about the heavy metal band WASP. Blackie Lawless would pray before each performance.
They were not highly regarded by the 'Washington Wives'. The lyrics though, carried a moral message, targeted at the audience.

Blackie praying before each show was a much more recent thing than the PMRC. His taking Christianity seriously happened about 20 years later.
Which explains songs like F@#k Like a Beast, Sex Drive, Blind in Texas and the Torture Never Stops.

 

[DM60]

I am in agreement with many of the posts, faith based music (I will keep it neutral) should be pleasing to the ears (subjective, but each person knows what is pleasing to them). Being the best, is also subjective. However, giving your best, (still subjective except to the one giving their best, as they know) should be a goal. Not sure why that would even be discussed as it should be assumed.

Let's not confuse "being the best" with presenting is a different way. I know there are many on this board who make music in a way that they are trying to express in a "not-conventional way". I often use Picasso as a good example. Now I am ignorant when it comes to art. I look at his work and think, looks like a child painted it. But others understand, he is a master painter and has chosen a method that is unconventional to present an idea in a new way. Doesn't look like his best to me, but others who follow him think otherwise.

In any art form, regardless of the motivation, why are you creating? That is the first question. If the OP is merely wanting to make it sound better, but knows there are limitations. OK, I get that, but understand there are limitations. It is not going to sound studio quality good. But, if the OP wants it to sound organic, authentic, etc. then cutting and bending and placing fingerprints all over the finished product is counter to the objective.

That leads back to a lot of comments, the source. If organic is the goal, then how one places the mics to get the "sound" that the producer is hearing captured is then the objective.

OP - post your recording and let us know what is your vision of the finished product. We may or may not be able to assist in your goals. But you have to be willing to make changes to your approach and if you won't or can't, then your objective probably won't be reached. Therefore, cut the stuff you want and be OK with the results.

Not trying to be a jerk, but the only way to change is to change.

 

[grimtraveller]

faith based music

"Within you, without you" by the Beatles {more specifically, George Harrison}, the album "Tommy" by the Who, and some of the Kerry Livgren composed songs on Kansas' "Monolith", are faith based. The general punter wouldn't know this if they weren't told. Much of the material on U2's first 5 or 6 albums are packed to the gills with insider references to Bono's, the Edge's and Larry Mullen's Christianity, but that didn't stop them becoming a huge band. Many jazz artists {John Coltrane, John McLaughlin, Chick Corea, Stanley Clarke, Larry Young, John Handy, Pharaoh Sanders etc} during the 60s and 70s went headlong into various religious philosophies. Even where there was an obvious presentation in LP sleeves and interviews, the thing all these artists have in common was that they produced great music. The messages, if any, may have been important, but not to the detriment of the overall music. I was atheist when I first heard and loved "Birds of Fire" by the Mahavishnu Orchestra and "Hymn of the 7th Galaxy" by Return To Forever, "The Plan", by the Osmonds, and loads of other songs and albums in that religious/spiritual vein. Not one of the messages seeped in, but I loved the music and still do.
But while the music remained, I have looked deeper into what all the particular artists were about and checked out things they've said over the decades. I wouldn't have done that if their music was half-assed.