Studio Update - Drawing

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DigitalDon

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Ok - I finally figured out how to convert my drawing (Home Deluxe 3D) to a .jpg file.

The measurements and angles aren't exact yet. The speakers (JBL 4311's) will be soffit mounted to control the bass. I'll probably still need bass traps in the back corners of the control room. I'm considering a sliding glass door on the vocal booth if I can get enough isolation. All walls will be resilient channel mounted sheetrock. Exterior walls are 8" thick so 6" insulation will be used. I "cut" the corners in the control room to cut down on parallel walls. The wall separating the control room from live room will be staggered stud. Of course all windows will be doubled and angled. All doors will be 36". I didn't show the actual doors because it cluttered up the drawing.

The control room ceiling will probably be a peaked suspended panel ceiling. The last thing I'll do is work on the live room ceiling. I want to hear the band practicing in there first. Then I'll determine if a ceiling has to be installed. I'll be considering a "cloud" or suspended baffles/absorbers/diffusors versus a sheetrock or suspended panel ceiling.

The control room floor will be carpeted. The live room will be painted concrete (at least for the near future). This is where I need some help. Somewhere (?) on the web I saw a live room with a painted concrete floor. The paint looked like a "swirled" black and dark maroon. I really liked the look but can't find it anywhere. I don't remember if it was from a link at this BBS or through John Sayers site. I don't really want just a solid color but I'm open to suggestions. If anyone has seen a pic of a studio with painted floor that really impressed you please let me know. The walls in that room will probably be a deep purple or maroon or who knows??? Anything but white!!

Suggestions anyone??

Oh yeah. All exterior walls are now up and the roof is 2/3 complete. I'll post pics tomorrow when they finish the roof.

DD
 
DD,

My first thoughts were:

Since you have a fair amount of space to work with, why not do a double wall with an airspace between the control room and the Live room. The live room looks like a big room capable of being pretty loud to me...

The vocal booth looks a bit small to me. They certainly don't have to be huge but could you get three vocalists in there at once for BG vocals if needed? just wondering.

I also had a thought of adding another iso booth by doing a mirror image of the vocal booth on the live room side of the wall. it could be multi-purpose for vocals, acoustic instruments or an amp room too... This would also break up some of the parallel wall surfaces ( read flutter) in the live room.

Looking good!

DAN
 
Dan,
Yeah the thought had crossed my mind about going with a double wall instead of just staggered stud. I know the live room will be pretty loud. That's why I'm looking for opinions and observations here. The only thing set in "concrete" right now is the drain in the bathroom :D . Sorry - just had to say that. The opposite corner of the control room could easily be set up as a vocal booth too.

You'll notice too there's no door leading directly from the control room or vocal booth to the live room. I figure a door would be the hardest point to block or attenuate sound. That's why there's a foyer (sort of like an airlock) separating the entrances to the control room and live room.

Since this building is for both recording and rehearsal (my son's band) I'm a little bit limited in space utilization. I want to give them as much room as possible without cutting myself short. The control room is smaller than I would like and isolation (or it's evil twin bleed) will be a problem. The building is being built in such a way that I can easy expand length wise a couple of years down the road. The budget just couldn't handle it right now. That will give me a dedicated drum room and a couple of amp rooms. In the meantime I'll build a drum stage, isolate it from the slab with neophrene etc bushings and place a gobo in front of it. Probably some type of suspended diffusion or absorption over the drum stage too.

Keep the suggestions coming!

DD
 
Are you working with existing walls? I know from recent personal experience that you could probably get better acoustics if you angle the wall between the control room and studio. I finally decided to tear down the existing walls in my space, and i'm so glad i did. Makes for a lot of work, tho.
 
oh, i also wanted to tell you about my experience with concrete floors. When I first built a studio in my house, i poured a concrete floor. I thought a pad and carpet would fix any problems. The sound was so rough that i quickly put parquet on the floor. The sound of parquet with no carpet was 200% better than the sound of concrete with a carpet and pad. I just don't believe a concrete floor can ever sound good.
 
Don, I'd have to agree with Dan, the booth does look kind of cozy.

If you don't already have your standing wave problems worked out, would it be possible to lengthen the short wall of the booth closest to the control room entrance?

It would steepen the angle of the wall with the booth door but would gain you a few extra feet of floor space in the booth.

Your corners would not be symetrical though.

Just a thought. ;)
 
Parquet or any wood floor is completely out of the question. Sure would look nice though. Unfortunately I'm sure I'll bust my budget with lots of small things I hadn't counted on, much less a major expense.

Senn,
The purpose of the vocal booth shape was to give the control room better symetry (wall/door between booth and control room). The drawing on that side of the room is not very accurate (sorry). The north bathroom wall will actually be about a foot farther north than shown. This would swing the vocal booth/door clockwise and farther north. Also, one reason I'm considering the sliding glass door is to keep the vocalist from feeling claustrophobic. I think (mentally) the glass door would make a small booth "feel" more open. Just an idea.

Since the building (shell) is almost finished (roof is on - just needs trim) I plan on using wide masking tape on the concrete to "draw out" the room dimensions. That'll give me something I can touch and see.

Attached is a couple of pics taken earlier when the roof was almost finished. How 'bout those skylights??:D :D

DD
 
Hey, I've never actualyl built a studio, but i have read about it and was wondering, wouldn't it make more sense to split your are into two large triangles? One for the control room and iso booths, and a triangular live room? Maybe the reason why that wouldnt work is basic, but it seems to eliminate all of the parallel walls.

It must be fun to build a studio from scratch though!

Eric
 
Now that I've seen your roof, I will say that the church I've done some acoustic work in has the same ceiling that I see in yours, with the somewhat, draped across the beam type nsulation. And you know what? Its sounds pretty good! the draped angles of the insulation/ barrier make for good random diffusion off the ceiling. Assuming sound leakage from the live room to the outdoors is not a problem, I think you may like it that way.

I think the foyer /airlock is a good idea. But would a load in door off the back side of the live room for band equipment be of use? IAlthough, I can understand that you might want to keep this room tight with no extra doors...
 
jonothon said:
Are you working with existing walls? I know from recent personal experience that you could probably get better acoustics if you angle the wall between the control room and studio. I finally decided to tear down the existing walls in my space, and i'm so glad i did. Makes for a lot of work, tho.
Click to expand...
How?
 
jonothon said:
oh, i also wanted to tell you about my experience with concrete floors. When I first built a studio in my house, i poured a concrete floor. I thought a pad and carpet would fix any problems. The sound was so rough that i quickly put parquet on the floor. The sound of parquet with no carpet was 200% better than the sound of concrete with a carpet and pad. I just don't believe a concrete floor can ever sound good.
Click to expand...
it wasn't the carpet on Concrete that was the problem, it was the carpets absence of Low end absorption (Hi frequency absorption and lack of low end absorption.)

to remedy this balance the absorption by adding anti-carpet units to the ceiling which are Low Frequency absorbers such as a Helmholtz Resonators. these can be made really cheeply using perforated board, 703 and some additional insulation on top of that. the goal is to balance the absorption coefficients. if one is using a suspended ceiling, this is really easy to do.

i'll agree though that Parquet is much more comfortable to work on and basically neutral acoustically (very low and even absorption coefficients.)
 
Dan,
Yeah, I considered a load in door but decided I wanted the room as tight as possible. All doors are 36" to ease moving equipment in and out.

DD
 
Nice Skylights :)

Its cool how much progress you're making!

Since you're soliciting suggestions...

Double wall :)
Larger vocal booth :)

But along the back wall I'd have some kind of angled surface so the back wall isn't so flat. Absorbers/refractors aside, even a slight angle would provide a benefit.

The center point of the back wall behind the sofa would remain where it is, and the two ends (top left and bottom left of your jpg) should have a 5-10 degree angle looking at the top view.

just a thought :)
 
Frederic,
Thanks for the advice. Hadn't though about that back wall. That's a very good idea and very do-able in the building phase I am in right now.

Double wall. I'm a little foggy. For a double wall does that mean sheetrock on both sides of each insulated wall with an air gap in-between?

My (new) idea for vocal booth door. You've seen double french doors? Each has about 8 or 12 panes of glass. You can buy the single door, same style at Lowes for about $98. The wood is solid and thick. The glass is single pane but the interesting thing is how it is set into the wood. Because of the molding you could easy mount another pane (angled) if necessary for sound control. Just an idea.

DD
 
Thanks for the advice. Hadn't though about that back wall. That's a very good idea and very do-able in the building phase I am in right now.
Click to expand...

Yep, thats why I mentioned it.

I discovered my back wall (which I sit close to, only because the console table needed to be aimed towards the short end of the room because its wide. I partially solved the problem by aiming my monitors at my ears from a lower position, and having the console table "crooked" so the back wall is at a 5 degree angle to the console table. Not ideal, but better than aiming the monitors perpendicular to a flat wall.[/QUOTE]

Double wall. I'm a little foggy. For a double wall does that mean sheetrock on both sides of each insulated wall with an air gap in-between?
Click to expand...

Yes. Basically two walls next to each other with an air gap. If the air gap is tight, imperfections on the two walls will be okay, and you'll have excellent isolation in noise. Also, in temperature if your HVAC is wired as such. This might be useful because console rooms with lots of gear tends to be warmer than live rooms with three artists and a piano :)

My (new) idea for vocal booth door. You've seen double french doors? Each has about 8 or 12 panes of glass. You can buy the single door, same style at Lowes for about $98. The wood is solid and thick. The glass is single pane but the interesting thing is how it is set into the wood. Because of the molding you could easy mount another pane (angled) if necessary for sound control. Just an idea.
Click to expand...

Yep, thats a good solution to the doors. I used 2-way CCT because my construction skills are absolutely par with what a drunk opposum can do.

two camera's for 39.95 each and two surplus 6.4" NTSC LCD's for 119.95 each and some cable. Saved me the hassle of window building and other things I absolutely suck at :)

For my vocal booth, since I don't have a live room, I simply used two pairs of folding doors that I hinged together. Its obviously not a complete isolation from the control room, however if I record with headphones any of the mics I have can't hear the recorders, computers, and other things with fans and hard drives, which is good. The only thing that the mics can pick up (that they aren't supposed to) is my fax machine, which I'll just shut off when I'm actually recording. Since I record dry, using headphones is quite dandy. Upon mixing, the vocal booth isn't used so then I can run the monitors.

While multiple windows in a door look classy in my opinion, I would have gone with a solid door, then cut out for a single double pane window, just because its easier to see through. Its more carpentry work of course, but considering what you've done so far in your studio you'd have a better chance of success than me :)

Anyway, the way to do double panes in a door like that is to replace the moulding with wood with two slots spaced differently on top and on bottom, with angled slots on the side mouldings. Then fit it all together using mitered joints, place the glass inside, then slide the entire assembly into the door and chauk it well.
 
Steel exterior wall

Hi DD, say I havn't had time to follow your progress lately but I am excited for you! How fun. What are you planning on doing to the interior surface of the steel walls. Are you reframing another wall for sheetrock, or attatching something to the steel framing like furring or? I couldn't find what you were planning on? I know budgets/time suck. Main thing right now is getting it enclosed before winter:eek: Looks great. I'm turning green:D Question though, are you planning on recording a singer in the booth at the same time you are recording other musicians in the live room? If not, maybe you can eliminate it to make your control room larger, and use mobil gobos for vocals also. Maybe tri-folding ones along the live room walls. Kind of like abfussers! That could give you adustable acoustics also, if they were designed correctly. Maybe you could simply make the foyer, the vocal booth with a sliding glass door leading to the control room and another into the live room. I've seen that done to conserve space. I would suggest a door at the other end of the control room though, into the studio if you do, or the vocal booth would be a vestuble(air lock/passage way)which is alright too! Would you mind if I played with your plan in CAD for fun. I'll email them to you. I've got your basic dims, but the question regarding your interior walls is what I need to know. Like what is the cr/studio partition wall dying into. The steel? that is what I mean by interior wall. Your plan shows an exterior wall with thickness that matches your partition wall. But the exterior wall is steel. It has no thickness other than the metal. Thats what has me confused. Anyway, I'll show you what I mean if you can tell me what your planning on. In the meantime, wish you luck with what your doing. BTW, how are you planning the floor/ partition wall connection. Are you floating it on anything or fastening it right to the floor? Just curious, as I've got a list of questions a mile long myself!!!
fitz:)
 
A buddy of mine had pity on me and gave me a copy of Corel Draw 8.0. Now I can draw/doodle and post here easier.

Rick,
See the attached drawing. That should explain it now that I can draw it. What you won't see is the vertical "I" beam because it would clutter up the drawing. The drawing is of the exterior wall.

I would love to have more control room space but I feel like I'll regret it if I don't go ahead and build a booth. Most of the time I overdub on vocals but I would like to be capable of getting a good clean vocal with that "live" energy.

If you want to play around with dimensions that fine with me. Any ideas will be considered as the inside hasn't started yet. I'll get out there tonight and take some pictures of the walls/beams and ceiling beams inside and post them.

I'll also be redrawing everything now that I have a decent drawing program.

DD
 
That's looking real good Don.

I just started the "home equity loan" process.
**Fingers crossed!** (Shouldn't be a problem though)
 
Yea, looking good!!

Yea Dan, thats looking real good. One question on the wall. I thought, and don't quote me on this, that I just read somewhere that resiliant channel does no good unless the rear face of the wall(opposite your sheet rock) was open to another wall! Just need to clarify that after seeing what you've planned on. I am probably wrong, or thinking something different, but you might want to check on that. One little tidbit of info can save wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is of no consequence. But 10 to one you've probably got that one already investigated, huh? I just need it clarified for ME, so I learn, as this is a totaly different detail than I've ever seen(with metal exterior sheithing). Your drawing detail is fantastic. I have never used Corel for this, but it looks great. Was it easy in Corel? Anyway, keep up the great work, and keep us posted. You have a lot of people watching this, and willing to help in anyway they can!
And others learn by seeing it for real! Especially ME:D
fitz
 
Rick,
Yeah I had read that too about resilient channel. Still I can't help but think it would have some benefit using it on my exterior wall. I want to keep as much vibration from the outside metal siding as possible. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong. I'm not worried about sound getting in but I don't want the metal siding oscillating at it's resonant frequency. Learned a little bit about that as a Sonar technician in the Navy.

Here's a picture of the wall with the drawing underneath. Hopefully, the text isn't too small to read. Rick, the Corel Draw was very easy to use. Took me about 5 minutes to draw it.

I've got some ideas on the ceiling where the control/live room walls meet at the top. I'll try to draw it out. Keep the suggestions coming. :D

DD
 
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