Studio Layout Help Please!

[Jrasia]

Recently, I was offered a low price on leasing commercial space in a major downtown city. The owner(who've I've know for a number of years) will be opening a record store on the main floor, while I'm free to use the basement for recording purposes and even as a band rehearsal space. This is also fine with the landlord btw.
I've operated a small home studio for awhile now in my house, but having a proper space where I no longer have to worry about noise complaints, limited recording time, and not to mention expossing myself to new clients by being downtown seems like a hard offer to pass up.

Anyways, to sum up, I need some help in laying out the new space. I took a number of photos and measurements of the basement and I have drawn a rough sketch of the room and have even color coded the photos. The way the basement is currently setup is not bad seeing how there are even a couple of small areas that I could use as isolation rooms(including the bathroom), and the main floor area is relatively large enough to record ambient live drums that I love so much.

My priorites however are having a good live room and a proper control room to mix in. The control room doesn't have to be anything fancy though. I would like to have just my equipment, my monitors, and perhaps a couch to chill on. I'm free to move any walls I want, with the exception of the bathroom since it is tied to the plumming in the building and can't be easliy moved.
I would like to create some non parallel walls to remove any chance of flutter echo, and I'm even thinking of angling the ceiling slightly since it looks like it needs to be replaced and insulated(Roxul Safe'n'Sound).
I will most likely build bass traps(StudioTips) in all corners and even along the ceiling corners.

A couple of great tools that I have is that being part Italian my dads side of the family are house builders(So stereotypical, but so true) and are willing to help. My girlfriends dad also works at a Homedepot so he gets a 15% or so discount. This is not to say that I can go too crazy on construction materials. My estatmate is about $5000 - $6000.

Floating the main floor may be a possiblity, but I'm starting to worry about losing ceiling clearance.

My only real concern about the basement is all the electrical systems on the eastern wall. They are kinda in the way and I'm a little worried about what kind of interfernce they my draw into my recordings. There is one unit that buzzes quite loudly so I'm thinking of building a box around it so long as its not a safety issue. Has anyone had any experience building around something like this?

I know this seems like a lot, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Theres seems to be soo many new little studios popping up all the time, and normally I would never jump into something like this, but it seems like an offer I can't refuse. I hope someone take the time to at least look at my layout

Thanks in advance.

Jay

 

[Creamyapples1]

Looks like if you insulated the wall on the inside of the main room between the main room and the storage room, put in a sealed door, and insulated the 7X7 wall seperating it from the storage room, that would be good, without worrying about building a box around the loud elec. equipment, though if you still decide you want to do that, you can call the electric company and they can advise you on doing it safely, hell they'd probably even send a tech out to advise you better for it. Otherwise it looks like a nice little layout. Keep us posted on your progress and good luck!

 

[Jrasia]

Thanks for the advice.

My main concern is how and where to put the control room in this design. If the control room ends up close to the buzzing electrical unit, then yes I may have to contact the company, or build some sort of isolation box around it.

I'm just trying to save as much floor space for the tracking room, yet still have a comfortable mixing area for myself and people who want to mix with me.

 

[Creamyapples1]

The 7x7 room looks big enough for a "control" room I would think, then you could build a vocal booth/small iso room down in the open corner straight in from the stairs. 5x5 or something, and build a seperation wall to make like, an L shape hall as you come down the stairs so the main area is enclosed. Hell, looks like you have enough room there to do just about anything.

 

[JeffLancaster]

Alright this is a very rough diagram, but I thought It would be fun to take a stab at this. Not sure exactly how these dimensions would work out, you'll have to tweak it for the dimensions you need, but perhaps its a start in the right direction. Of course, if you're able to move the west wall over a bit you could have a little more space while still keeping the electrical area separate and having some storage space in there. Using good construction techniques to isolate the spaces, you probably won't notice the buzzing in the electrical area, however if it's bad, you might have it checked by an electrician anyway. While you're at it, have a couple new isolated ground circuits installed, to keep your studio equipment separate from the the rest of the building. I'd also consider putting a rack in the electrical area, to house computers and any other noisy equipment separate from the control room.

Best of luck with this - I sure wish I had you're challenge right now!

 

[chris-from-ky]

this work for you?

 

[chris-from-ky]

The 7x7 room looks big enough for a "control" room

I totally disagree. I don't want to be contrary but, I've worked in small control rooms and they are terrible. minimum you want to work with is a 11x13 with 6 degree angles inward on the 13' walls. What if the whole band comes in to hear the mix? fitting 5-6 people in a 7'X7' will be WAY TOO TIGHT.

I just read where it may also serve as a rehearsal space. You may just want to angle one long wall and use a lot of absorption and just keep it open. use gobos for vocal overdubs or whatever.

 

[Jrasia]

Thanks Chris and Jeff.

I kinda like Jeffs plan a little more cause it offers more space towards the tracking room. I agree that a mixing room should be an appropriate size but unfortuanetly if I have to choose between one of the two I would much rather have a larger tracking room. I shall be using close monitors to mix even though even under these circumstances, control room sizes should still be large enough.

I would like to leave the 'open space' area still connected to the main area to kept a visual line of distance between musicians. I may build a glass sliding door between those two areas so I can open it and isolate it as needed.
Problem may be how to build a door going up the the stairs.

Tell me what you think of this idea.

 

[JeffLancaster]

Perhaps a couple mods to your plan like this? This mod to the back wall would make your control room more symetrical so it might be easier to control acoustics in there. And it seems like you would also want an airlock (multiple door) system to help control sound between your studio and the record store upstairs thus the entry system I drew in at the bottom. Takes away a bit of your working space, but working space won't do you much good if you can't use it effectively! So what's that leave for your control room, about 13' X 8'? Tight, but with nearfields and good acoustic treatment you might be ok. I have a 14 x 8 1/2 foot space myself. Works ok, although I have my monitors positioned such that they direct sound the long way into the room, probably not the way you'd want to lay them out for this arrangement. You might check with some other experts on that - see if they think directing your sound into the shorter dimension would work ok, and how best to treat the room for that.

For the booth, I'm thinking it might be easier for you to use solid doors than a sliding glass one for effective isolation. It would take some seriously expensive glass door construction, in my understanding, to have an effective slider. Much cheaper to install a webcam to allow you to see the person in the booth.

 

[emergencyexit]

JeffLancaster, Your plan gives enough room to make two more iso booths, very small ones, but perfect for amps for bands that want to record completely live.

Ben

 

[JeffLancaster]

JeffLancaster, Your plan gives enough room to make two more iso booths, very small ones, but perfect for amps for bands that want to record completely live.

Ben

That's very true - you could certainly partiton of that small space behind the control room, to the west of the bathroom. And the entrance area could be redesigned such that you walk through an iso booth to reach the other rooms.

 

[chris-from-ky]

Hey jeff, somebody's taking credit for your work. I won't say who.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5583

 

[JeffLancaster]

It'll be interesting to see if John Sayers comes up with something on that. I think he's like the studio design master...

 

[Jrasia]

So does anybody see other areas in question, or that need improvement on the last floorplan(floorplan2.gif) I provided? I think I will just use the far northwest corner of the building as a small storage area instead of trying to makes it into another iso room. This will keep costs down and plus I'll probably need some space anyways.

Any idea on how I can improve the ceiling? I'm thinking of redoing the ceiling by stuffing it with Roxol Safe'n'Sound insolation because theres nothing in it right now. This should cut down on the foot traffic from upstairs, but I haven't decided exactly how I'm going to inclose it. I guess just sheets of drywall.
I was thinking of somehow angling the ceiling cause I plan on leaving the floor bare wood and I want to avoid standing waves and flutter. The problem is that I don't want to take away too much of my ceiling height.

Any more suggestions guys?

Thanks again for all your help. This is really great. Seems like the folks over at Tape Op and John Sayers site are too busy for this.

Jay

 

[JeffLancaster]

Personally, I'd just change the wall in the northwest corner the way I showed in in the pic I modified for you - just to keep it symetrical. This will make it easier to tame your room acoustics, and you'll still have the storage space - just on the other side of the wall. You're probably better off with the door to the storage/electrical area back there anyway - my guess is your going to have most of your desks, equipment, etc at the front of the room and you won't want to have to contend with a door there when your laying stuff out.

For the ceiling, it would probably give you the best isolation to install a new ceiling under the existing one, attached only to your new walls and nowhere contacting the ceiling up above. If you actually plan to slope the ceiling, then there is really no excuse not to do this. However, if you have a ceiling clearance issue like you stated, another thing you could do would be to look into "resiliant channels". I haven't tried these, but I undestand their like a metal/rubber strip that you screw to the overhead joists, and then attach your sheetrock to the strip. These are supposed to help prevent vibrations from traveling between the drwall and the joists above. These can be used on the walls too. They're not cheap though, which is why I went with the double layers of studs when constructing my room.

 

[Rod Gervais]

So does anybody see other areas in question

Jr.,

Well I do.

1. You don't say exactly where you are - but if you're in the USA and in a big city - I don't see you pulling permits and getting the job done here.

This would be considered new construction work - seeing as there isn't already a recording studio that exists there.........

NFPA 101 - the LIfe Safety Code accepted in most states as their fire safety code requires a minimum of a 7' - 6" (90") finished ceiling in all means of egress - that includes (basically) any occupied areas as well as corridors, etc.

I don't see you meeting this requirement.

2. In order to construct this so it meets current requirements for building codes, electrical codes mechanical codes as well as the special requirements for isolation and treatments (to make it a viable studio) there is no way that your budget numbers are realistic.

3. If you intend on doing this outside of codes and permits - you put yourself at grave risk should anyone even as much as trip walking into your establishment.

You asked a question regarding enclosing electrical gear - you can't do that - you have to maintain minimum clearances around equipment and in front to allow for safe working conditions - any gear that hums is producting heat - so even removable boxes would violate the manufacturers requirements for free air so as to not overheat.

You will probably spend 80 to 90% of your budget just to provide air conditioning and fresh air.......... HVAC........

Perhaps you should rethink some of this - or figure out how you can increase your budget.

If you're going to pull permits you'll need plans and will probably have to apply for at least a couple of building and life safety code modifications before you can pull those permits - be carefull you don't work yourself into a corner.

Sincerely,

Rod

 

[Jrasia]

Hey Rob,

Thanks. You've given me some things to think about.

I live in Ottawa, Canada. I'm really not sure what our safety regulations are here in Ottawa. Definately something I was going to look into. I know however that that this building has operated with the original layout as 1)Record Store, 2)Pawn Shop(both upstairs) and at one point the basement was even part of techno club if you can believe that.

With my new plan, I don't think I'll be enclosing the electrical system any closer that it currently is... if anything they will be further out. The far southwest corner of the room doesn't contain any electical systems, and the walls will actually be further out thanks to the angling of the west wall. I won't be building an enclosure around the actual electrial unit anymore since it won't be necessary. I forgot to mention this.

As far as the ceiling is concerned they are exactly 89". I will have to check into what the minimum height should be here in Ottawa, but I'd imagine that if this place operated as a club at one point, it shouldn't be a problem now. I will check into it though.

I quickly inspected the HVAC system and while I'm no expert, I don't think the way the vents are setup now should conflict with the new design. There might be some sweaty areas of the building though

Thanks again.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

1. You don't say exactly where you are - but if you're in the USA and in a big city - I don't see you pulling permits and getting the job done here.

PERMITS???? we don need no stinkin PERMITS!!!


Rod, this is why I've given up on replying to peoples COMMERCIAL "home studios" that ARN"T. They just don git the bbs name..HOME RECORDING!! Some people seem to think they are one in the same, if they DIY in a commercial building.

Guys, the reality is this. EVEN in a HOME, if you are modifying the structure in ANY way, chances are 99% that you NEED A PERMIT TO DO IT!! But when you go into a COMMERCIAL BUILDING, now chances are 100% you need to pull permits, and in a commercial building, you are dealing with a whole new set of rules, because of dealing with the PUBLIC. And they will BURY YOU in legalities and fines if you are caught without the permits. PERIOD.
fitZ

 

[Rod Gervais]

I'm really not sure what our safety regulations are here in Ottawa. Definately something I was going to look into.

Jay,

I'm happy to hear you say that. It is so easy to get into trouble with this stuff - and the repercussions can be large.

Rod