structure

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I guess this is all just going to be answered with the same kind of "whatever you prefer" sort of response, but anyway, I was just wondering if there's a certain rule of thumb anyone uses for getting the different parts of songs down (lyrics specifically) It seems I struggle with breaking away from the usual lame rhyme-scheemed, line-matched-syllable sort of deal.
I don't know, it may just be me, but when I look at some bands stuff, it appears to be really simple and sometimes unorganized. I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this or experienced the same, but if so, please leave any comments or help. :confused: :o :o
 
It's art; there's no guidelines that take into account your "voice" and personal preference.

I recommend reading more prose and literature in general.
 
When I write lyrics, depending what I'm writing about, I think about what elements I can put into the song to make the person "feel" what I'm feeling. What am I trying to get across...what is the point of it ...if there is one at all. The thing is, how do you want your listener to react when they hear that particular song? What words can you say to take yourself and others to the "place" you're trying to go...yeah, sounds kinda kookie, but that's what I like to do. It doesn't matter if you rhyme or whatever, unless that's what YOU are into doing...it's all yours ;)
 
there may be no hard rules but there are some conventions. things like, "the chorus should come after the verse" and things like that. but even though there are conventions, a lot of the best songs we hear don't always follow convention or don't always follow it in the same way.

each song may have it's own structure, but there is no general structural pattern to build a song. and if there was i wouldn't use it cause the idea of that would sit badly with me. i mean if a song can be written by anyone, or if it's going to be the same as anyone else's songs, then why should i bother to write it?

so listen to a lot of music. analyze the structure of what you hear. you'll find conventions and you'll find general rules of thumb that seem to apply. but then you'll notice that a lot of good songs break those conventions and such. and that's why we call it art really.
 
Hey

As mentioned above there are certain conventions in songwriting, although they are mainly aligned with musical genres. New gneres often arrive as a result of someone blending conventions from different styles or adapting a convention. Hopefully you know what I mean though I haven't explained it well.

If you look at poetry you will find the same thing as the problem you describe. Most writers stick to conventions. Most writers who do break conventions do so unintentionally. You've heard the phrase "push the boundaries"? That is exactly what you have to do. You experiment and find out what works, and what doesn't. Try your ideas and get feedback.

As a writer finding the balance between what is acceptable to listeners and what is acceptable to you is a balancing act. Not just between likes and dislikes, but between what is familiar, and what is not. I wrote an online article on familiarity in music once, but I edited it to make sense ;)

Try and take little steps. Write in open schemes, like ABCDED. Light on rhymes. Try using half rhymes and/or internal rhymes. Something else you can try, is wring something out as prose, and then editing down until you have a lyric.

Hopefully this is of some use.

Cheers

John
 
The thing is, many of the common "conventions" (chorus following verse, clever use of lyrical phrases, certain lines rhyme, etc) is what the craft of songwriting is all about.

The purpose of the chorus is both to bring in the "hook" but also to allow the song to build. The purpose of changing the chord progression in verse 2 (different than verse 1) is to allow the melody to expand, etc. The purpose of rhyme is to allow a certain poetic flow.

Most if not all of the greatest songs every written - from Tin Pan Alley to the Brill Building to the Beatles, Eagles, etc. use the common conventions and it does not compromise the integrity of the song or the writer.

Naturally, each writer must follow his/her own muse, but to torment over avoiding the conventions that some consider the very cornerstones of song writing, rather than to embrace those conventions, to me seems an unwarrented use of creative energy.
 
don't waste the potential for having more fluency and appropriate imagery for just having strict rhyming that would be more prominent in literature/poetry/poems; try to use more vowels in proper spots, especially where somewhere on a line the similar sounding combo of vowels would substitute for rigid rhyming that's only at the end of lines - cause that's how it becomes more fluent and also don't forget to connect words in a smoothly "ECONOMICAL WAY"; so, you should be fine, when especially in reality majority of listeners tend to judge the melody and singing before lyrics, yet that's not an excuse to have just some words on the background to cover the need - meaning is everything and how the audience would value it by correlating oneself with it..
let me know how it all goes, tho...
 
There are lots of formulas for songwriting . I prefer to be surprised by the direction that the lyric is taking. Even as the writer, I still like to be surprised. Here are some "formulas for surprise" These are just ways to build a supporting structure for a song ;

Something happened ( or is about to happen)
And then......
But only if.....(if only...)
Then I will be so....

etc...etc...etc...

Make up your own.

If I am stuck on a lyric, I have found that by identifying the elements of the structure I can more easily see where it's going as well as where it could go.


Another technique for getting unstuck is to delete all adjectives and adverbs, then start over and put in new ones. This may take you in a whole new direction.

It is way easier to write action than to describe a scene. Listeners are looking for "who, what , where, when ,why and how. Unless you are as gifted as Paul Simon, stick to action.

writeonnnnnn
chazba
 
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I don't plan anything. But then again, I never wrote anything good.

You know though, I don't mind Bob Dylan songs, for example Percy's Song, that have no structure apart from the chord sequence which repeats verse after verse for about 7 minutes. It's awesome
 
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