Strange kind of mix, input needed!

[Halion]

*update* Two examples can be found here:
http://members.home.nl/vangeelen/bassonly/
They are only sketches; I'm still learning and arranging the parts.

I'm doing a small project for myself that has a strange instrumentation. What I'm doing is recording a couple of up-tempo orchestral pieces on just my bassguitar. I'm using the full range of notes and tones available on my 4 string bass. I've done this kind of thing before, and musically it works very well, but I always have problems with the mix, because the tones are too similar.

What I'm basicly doing is arranging an orchstral piece into these tracks:
Bassline (double bass / tuba)
Harmony (strings / brass)
Melody (violin / flute)
Second/counter melody (clarinet, oboe, horn whatever).

Range-wise, I can play everything fairly well, but because the parts from the harmony and melodies are sometimes so near to each other (thirds or something) I get very muddy tones (because of the fairly low fundamental frequencies of the bass).

The bassline is mostly alright. I EQ out some highs and add some 60-120 hz and I'm fine. The melody is fine aswell, if I use the bridge pickup and cut some lows. The other parts clash too much. Panning them around helps a little, but I don't wanna "have to" pan them just to fix a problem. Any ideas on how I can make all parts sit in the mix better? If need be, I can use multiple basses (my teacher has a couple of basses I can borrow, including a 6 string).

 

[$a1Ty]

yeah use a 6 string lol, that would help

 

[Halion]

That's not really a helpfull answer. I'm talking clashing tones, not range problems. I can play everything even on a 4 string.

 

[$a1Ty]

well you can try a different bass but the tone will always be pretty similar, try cutting and boosting different freq to change the sound or add some effects, but yeah all being played on a bass it will sound close

 

[Halion]

*bump*bump*

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

but because the parts from the harmony and melodies are sometimes so near to each other (thirds or something) I get very muddy tones (because of the fairly low fundamental frequencies of the bass).

I checked out "bonusdiskbassonly". The quote above is self-explaining half the problem. It's kind of like saying, "I can squeeze 5 fat people into my Geo but the problem is that there's no room left for the driver."

Seriously, though, I think I know what you're trying to accomplish and it can be done. I think a major source of the problem is the parts all have a similar "character". Not just in fundamental freqs and forment tones, but in overall timbre. They all sound like they are coming from the same instrument run through the same signal chain (even if they aren't); there is not enough diversity of coloration in the tracking.

No amount of EQ in the mix stage will help that...at least probably not to satisfaction.

I'm not sure what resources you have available to you, but I'd suggest

- mixing up the instrumentation itself a little bit. If you have more than one bass available to you, use the same for the bass line and the melody, as you say, but use a different one with different tonal characteristics for the middle parts. If not anoter bass, even a keyboard or sample synth might do.

and

- mixing up the signal chain. Open something up to amping or reamping. Also, use mic selection critically. Try using a mic with more "air" on the middle parts or on the harmony line to help lift and seperate it from the mud.

Halion, I have no idea just what you have mentally pictured for the overall arrangement and just what's going to musically be laid over these bass tracks, but you have the start of an amibitious and difficult arrangement going. You already have three or four lines going and you have barely broken into midrage.

Like you say, it really screams for some panning on the soundstage; that is necessary to at least some decent degree to keep those multiple lines from just becoming a glop of mud. The difficulty there is that if you still have a half-doxen or so more tracks to bring in for the mid and high instrumentation, you are already running short of clean soundstage in which to put them You can easily wind up back in the Geo Metro again.

I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong. Not in the least. I'm just saying that its a complicated project, and to keep all the ducks in a proper row, extra-special care and planning should be taken in the tracking phase. It's very important to map out the arrangement and the mix beforehand, with specific care given to the placement of each instrument in all four dimensions; i.e. treat the arrangement and the mix as one. This is not the kind of stuff that one can EQ or compress their way out of when they get into a jam down the road. *Track* individually with that four-dimensional mix in mind, using instrument and signal chain strategies to get the tracks as "sonically" accurate as you can before you throw them into the mixing stage.

Hope this helps you at least a little. Good luck with what so far sounds like a very interesting project. It'll be interesting to hear the results.

G.

 

[Halion]

Thanks, that's the kind of advice I'm looking for

Current, I'm still in the arranging fase. All those tracks recorded with one bass, through a DMP3, and mostly the same sound on the bass aswell.

If needed though. I can access an Eden preamp, which has a whole slew of tonal shaping options. I can also mic an Eden cab, and if need be I can use a Yamaha TRB 6 string (totally different sound than my own bass), a Fodera Emperor 4 string (more like the Yamaha, but still unique) and an old Ibanez Musician 4 string. That's 4 basses, and at least 3 totally different signal chain setups. You think that will be enough?

I realize it's a hell of a project, but I still wanna do it. I've sort of already done it before, on a much smaller scale, and people around were really diggin it, so this time I wanna do it right all the way.

Also, my old strings don't help much either.