Story songs...

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dpsmith

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I have some songs I have writen about my personal life.

But, When you run out of past experiances, and don't really feel the need to make a song about the present, how do you make up story songs?

Example, I made up a song (2 days) about a woman whos husband cheated on her, A man who lost his wife, then the two "meet in the rain", and ends on her "holding a new life in her arms".

I played it to my family, needless to say, it didn't go over to well. They just kept saying they didn't like it. Yes I know it sounds like a country song but it isn't.

It was my first atempt to make up a song about fictonal things. So that lead me to wonder...
How do you make a good story song?

Would like to try a new style of writing...
I love writing songs.. sometimes I just don't have anything to write about in my life..

Anyone know where I am comming from?

Thanks!

David.
 
My style is rap, but I'll try to give you a few pointers when I get home from work.
 
I almost always write story songs (I rarely write personal things). I enjoy and repect a good story song more than an overly easy and cliche love song any day of the week.

When I write, most things come from a musical groove/chord progression, which in turn generates a melody which then dictates a general mood (happy, sad, laid back, agressive, etc) - which then dictates some of the lyrical phrases. Once I have a few phrases (often the phrase that may become the hook or the title) - I then can start my story.

I simply try to picture some characters and let them help me tell their story. Sometimes the story interests me and I let the story continue. Sometimes, the story does not interest me and I let the charactors simply drift away.

Personally, I think the story you described sounds like a very good story line. Do you know why your family did not like the story? If they did not like the melody, or the groove - that does not mean the story was not a good story.
If they did not like the lyrics or the rhymes - perhaps you simply need to do a better job of telling the story.

If they simply did not like the story because they found it sad or disturbing - well, maybe that's their problem not yours. Whilel asking friends or family for opinions is not a bad thing (if you think you can get honest and artistically intellegent opinions) - at the end of the day......trust your heart. If you think it's a story you want to tell......tell it.
 
"you know why your family did not like the story?"

They just kept saying it didn't make since.
The only thing I know is that I need to either add in my seconed verse
"in another place" or something like that.

Or swich out the seconed verse with the first one. When I get home I will post it. I am doing some computer work for my grand mother and am fixing to go home.

And thatnks for the reply.
David.
 
still write what you know.

For example, Johnny Cash went to jail a few times (actually for really minor offenses, which he was released fairly quickly) so then he wrote a ton of songs about being in prison for blowing his wife's head off and doing coke, on death row for shooting someone in Reno, Wanting to see San Quentin being burned to the ground, etc.. SO it's not based on his life experience in full, but he had some angry feelings about his small brushes with the law that it inspired him to write fantastical stories about it.

There are a small amount of people that can write a good song that's completely disconnected from them in all ways. Sometimes just being inspired by your experiences, but not writing specifically ABOUT them is a good trip. If I'm writing a song about my anger at power structures in the world, sometimes I might think of, for emotional value, the times when I was the victim of police brutality/abuse of power. If I'm writing a song that's supposed to be sexy (for someone else of course hehehehe) I allow myself to feel a bit randy. I guess what I'm saying is, just because something is inspired from your experience or your life doesn't mean you have to write specifically about it. If you hate your boss, maybe write a song about kicking the shit out of some asshole (I have 3 or 4 boss killing songs that I've done)

But really, just don't limit yourself, if you feel the need to write a song about someone who's drinking at the bar cause his wife is fucking the mailman, go ahead, who cares what your family thinks. My family hates my music, thinks it's literally music from the devil himself. Ordinary people tend to get this silly notion that if you write a song you ARE that song. But oh, of course, it's totally different if I write a novel, or if I act in a movie, that's make believe... but music is ONLY real. lol

Does that help any?
 
mikeh said:
I almost always write story songs (I rarely write personal things). I enjoy and repect a good story song more than an overly easy and cliche love song any day of the week.

When I write, most things come from a musical groove/chord progression, which in turn generates a melody which then dictates a general mood (happy, sad, laid back, agressive, etc) - which then dictates some of the lyrical phrases. Once I have a few phrases (often the phrase that may become the hook or the title) - I then can start my story.

I simply try to picture some characters and let them help me tell their story. Sometimes the story interests me and I let the story continue. Sometimes, the story does not interest me and I let the charactors simply drift away.

Personally, I think the story you described sounds like a very good story line. Do you know why your family did not like the story? If they did not like the melody, or the groove - that does not mean the story was not a good story.
If they did not like the lyrics or the rhymes - perhaps you simply need to do a better job of telling the story.

If they simply did not like the story because they found it sad or disturbing - well, maybe that's their problem not yours. Whilel asking friends or family for opinions is not a bad thing (if you think you can get honest and artistically intellegent opinions) - at the end of the day......trust your heart. If you think it's a story you want to tell......tell it.
Click to expand...

yeah he's got a point as well. Sometimes, what I do when writing is literally just come up with the melody with complete gibberish and then fit actual lyrics to whatever mood, patterns, and vowel sounds that I decided before. SO, sometimes I don't even know what I'm writing a song about until I finish, and then it's like... oh yeah this song can go in this direction.
 
mikeh pretty much covered what I was gonna try to say.
 
Yeah, I try to write a story or at least paint a picture. Most are not based solely on myself, but rather pieces of me, of people I know, of things I read, or stories floating around in my head. Sometimes, the songs write themselves.

Just yesterday, I was reading through the SAS forum right here on homerecording.com and came up with lyrics based on one's person advice to another. I spent all night last night writing them. I do not feel that I'm a substance abuser, but I wrote the song in first person. (And for what's it's worth, I'm not an alcoholic, I'm Irish-American :D )

I think every song should tell a story, even instrumentals.

I remember asking a friend a long time ago where he got his ideas for songs and he said, "from the newspapers".

I often find the things that bother me the most or that I so want to say are the songs I cannot write. I'm not as rebellious as I want to be....

It's cool that you're asking these questions.
Cheers,
 
Story song or not I do not think I have written completely from my own experience – it may start out very personal and raw in first draft but it becomes mediated by the editing/crafting process. It is sort of taking the personal and highlighting the universal aspects

My process is similar to mikeh my songs have their origins in the music. Once the words start (more often with a first verse than a chorus) however I think about ‘tension’ not a narrative – sometimes a whole narrative comes or sometimes just a montage of images.

When I think narrative I always think of characters wanting something and having to work through obstacles to get it. That’s the story in the Vs (mid 8 is often a different POV on the narrative), the Ch is then the lyrical hook the summary of what might resonate with the listeners life (I don’t have to have gone to prison to understand the isolation, loneliness and authoritarian environment that Cash sings about).

Two songs of mine if you are interested to listening

Memory of skin

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=631104&songID=6207907

Based on a 2 x 3 min conversation with a woman in Starbucks – there was just a strange attraction – so I got the whole past life thing going and the lyric poured out –not sure if it is a story song or not, but was based on about 6 mins of my life, but I am sure lots of people could relate to the situation. In fact I am thinking of change Ch to make situation more explicit. But I had the music and melody waiting for content.

Acrobats Wife

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=631104&songID=6205281

Completely story, absolutely nothing to do with my life – apart from being in love with a 17 y.o. girl when I was 14 – I don’t even like circus. Words and music came at the same time and it was all like a movie in my head (Wings of Desire, HBOs Carnival, Steinbecky)

I think it has to start with something personal – a little tension or something or someone you notice – then you’ve got to craft it, work it into the genre you want and find lyrical/musical hook that will give your story universal appeal.

Don’t forget that the words and the music do not live alone.
 
For story songs start paying attention to people's stories at bars, work, wherever you are? Ask couples how they met, ask vets about their war stories.

You do need to find out what your family did not like about it. Usually families tend to be supportive and not a very objective audience, but who knows. If the story line just was not clear to them, maybe it needs a rewrite.

My wife is one of my biggest critics, but once she likes something, I know it has arrived. She is always quick to let me know when something is not working in the lyrics and I know I need to rewrite it........ which I really hate to do. But songwriting takes hard work and perseverance to get good at.

Hang in there and keep writing!

bilco
 
Thanks for the advice.

After reading all the posts I realized I was feeling a bit lonley and as others have posted it was like a movie in my head (How many of us songwriters daydream ALOT? I know I do!), I re wrote it to what I liked.

I usualy write the lyrics then the music, I have such a hard time doing it the other way, after I have the song I usualy have to tweak the song a little..
You know

They will.. change it to They'll I still say the same thing and it all fits..usualy.
I know with my SLOMH song I wrote it, then re-wrote it like 5 times. I just found the actual first draft.. I was surpised I changed it so much, the only thing that stayed the same was the chorus...

A few of you are using a term I am not familiar with. Is a hook the same as a chorus?

Here is the smi-finished work of the song I am talking about.
---------------------------------------------

She stares out the window,
Watching the snow fall down,
Wondering how it went so wrong,
She gave him all she had,
And he went and broke her heart,
Saying he found some one new,

And on the wind she hears,

My tears will make the morning dew,
I’ll show you a world brand new,
We will never be apart,
I promise with all of my heart,

The doctor said she's gone,
He cried out "Oh my god,
This can not be real",
As he holds her cold hand,
He can barley hold the tears back,
His mind bigens to play their life,

On the wind he hears,

I see the fear in your eyes,
There is no need to cry,
I will hold you all night long,
So that you can grow strong,

They meet in the in the rain,
Two broken hearts all the same,
Both knowing each others pain,
As they look at each other,
They both realize,
They'll never be alone,

Then they hear on the wind,

Their tears will make the morning dew,
They’ll have a world brand new,
They will never be apart,
They promised with all their hearts,

She stares out the window,
Watching the snow fall down,
Smiling about how her life is so right...
------------------------------------------------

I asked again why they didn't like it, my mum said don't go there and me pop said "It's a rough draft right?"... I usualy don't get that so hence this whole discution.

I do belive though, that I just need to reverse the first and seconed verses.
or as I said, at the first of the second one say something like "In another place". I think it Might make more since, but like I said this was a first atempt at a kind of disconnected song, But I have an for the next time.

As sugested, I will use my raw emotions to make a story song, it makes since.
Music moves people, it can make em mad, or happy, suicidal (papa roaches song last resort anyone?) or just plane ol love sick. So makes since to me now that one should use emotion to write something like a story song.. so thanks for the guidance.

I usualy stay away from rhyming alot. I usualy can not stand songs that rhym alot. I know I have in this one though. The choruses rhym as well as the part where they meet. I don't feel it is forced, I saw in another thread about how someones song had "Cookie Cuter Rhyms", Have kind of an Idea, but I don't think I have em, but if I do I don't think I used em to much.

I am not married, nor do I have a Girl, so I use my parents a judge alot.
Much like Bilco and his wife. Although there are a few songs I wrote they hate, but thats their problem!:D

Once more thanks for the tips.
 
The one thing I noticed right away (given that this is a story about two people from two different views) - The 1st verse starts immediately with "she" but the second verse (the "he verse") does not have "he" until the 2nd line. To complicate it more, the 1st line references "she" (making it easy to think we're still talking about the she from verse 1).

The second chorus (the he chorus) has him talking to his dead wife, yet it is in present tense. Should this not be past tense since she's already dead?

The 3rd verse where they meet comes with little set-up so it seems rather sudden. Also, they meet in the rain, yet the beginning and end of the song has her looking at the snow (perhaps a lack of continuity), although I really do like the way you bring the story back to her looking at the snow.

That all being said - I really like the concept of two broken hearts finding each other. I think with some more effort and as many re-writes as it takes you could have a very nice story to tell. Look at it as your dad suggested - this is a draft - now you need to fine tune it.

All the best song writers understand that it's common to do re-writes.
 
dpsmith said:
Thanks for the advice.

A few of you are using a term I am not familiar with. Is a hook the same as a chorus?


I usualy stay away from rhyming alot. I usualy can not stand songs that rhym alot. I know I have in this one though. The choruses rhym as well as the part where they meet. I don't feel it is forced, I saw in another thread about how someones song had "Cookie Cuter Rhyms", Have kind of an Idea, but I don't think I have em, but if I do I don't think I used em to much.
Click to expand...

A hook is used to capture a fish and then prevent it from getting away. It has a point and a tiny little barb (couldn't resist the analogy... ) Same thing in a song; it is the part of a song that pulls the listener in and holds them until the end of the song. The hook is usually the most memorable part of a song. It's usually in the chorus as the first line or the last line and in contemporary, mainstream songwriting, it will also be the title. A hook can also be a signature guitar lick, or melody, or whatever it is about the song that is captivating.

I think you should try incorporate rhymes into your song. They really are an integral part of a song. Yeah, I understand why you want to avoid rhymes because of the "Cookie Cutter Rhymes" thing, but a great songwriter is going use rhymes without the listener even knowing it or thinking about it. Rhymes make the song easier to memorize. To me, if it doesn't ryhme, it's more like a poem. Poems and songs are two completely different things. just my opinion, though.

I can't figure out the structure in your song. I see what I think is:

V1
Lift
Chorus
V2
Lift
V3
V4
Lift
Chorus
Outro

A lift is a line or two that leads into a chorus.

There's nothing set in stone about song structure, whether or not to use rhymes, whether or not the song makes sense (I'm not saying your doesn't, but I know some of my own might not :D ), whether it has a prevalent hook or not.... basically, it's your song and you can do what you want. But as a songwriter, you have to ask yourself, Am I writing these songs for me to write OR for people to listen? If you're writing for yourself, then whatever you do is fine. If you're writing for people to listen then you should present your song in a manner that the listener will be expecting. Contemporary structure, rhymes, hooks, good storytelling, etc. If you expect to sell your songs, then you'll really need to follow a set formula or have the necessary components of a contemporary song. No song will sell if listeners can't connect with it.

I recommend you read Jason Blume's book, "6 Steps to Songwriting Success". It has some sections that address this stuff better than I can explain. It talks about how to write memorable songs and still be artistically expressive the way you want to be.

Hope this helps. Keep up the good work.
Cheers.
 
Thanks for the advice. I am doing a re-write (oh joy of joys) and will post a nerer version when I am done to this thread.

And I totally agree with Mikeh...
"All the best song writers understand that it's common to do re-writes"

I don't consider myself great, but I think I do an ok job once I finaly got it donw. worst rewrite I ever did to 20 some od re-writes... *shrugs*

Thanks again!!!:D:D:D:D

David
 
Story songs can be more interesting if you have a twist in the story. Okay, its an annoying song, but there's that tune from the early 80s about the man who puts a classified ad in a newspaper and finds his wife responded and they rekindle their love. It was the song, "do you like pina coladas? And getting caught in the rain.." Cheezy, but it told a story with a "twist" ending.

Its one thing to tell a story and have someone say "that's nice" but another for someone to say "aaah! that's interesting". If that makes sense..

For my own songwriting, I like to try to figure out things in nature or weather that are akin to things that people do. There are natural phenomena that mirror things that people do, and they can make for interesting lyrics.

I think about the old Wings song, "The willow turns it's back in inclement weather. We can do it too.."

Good luck..
 
I love writing story songs, myself. I've taken stories I've gotten off of the internet, you know, those touching stories of questionable factuality that people forward, and made a song or two from them. Also I had one that I started with just an image "Flowers by the Road" and thought of three different ways that image worked and made a story from them...(First verse was a father taking pictures of his children in the flowers by the road, second verse the wife and kids wind up memorialized by crosses and flowers by the road, third verse, the man is homeless (driven crazy by guilt) and in order to earn a little money sells flowers by the road. Ironically, I was in a great mood and wanted to write a love song when I came up with that tear-jerker of a song.)
 
Hey, David. Here is a link that you might find useful in writing lyrics. It talks about POV or point of view. Don't limit yourself to your own experiences and feelings. Be someone else. Be born in a crossfire hurricane like Sir Mick or be a lonely lighthouse like James Taylor. See the world through the eyes of something inanimate, then write about it.

When I wrote "The Ghost Ship's Parade," do you think I really thought I was a clipper ship? Noperoo. HTH

Sorry, the forum won't let me post a URL, but you can just go to wiggymusic.org and click on "The Little Shop of Lyrics."
 
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