still LOVE my 4-track!

  • Thread starter Thread starter kesterdevine
  • Start date Start date
K

kesterdevine

New member
Hey everybody,

I'm relatively new to the Homerecording.com boards, and have just recently checked out this Tascam forum. I've been posting mostly on the Fostex users forum, since I just got an MR-8 and am trying hard to embrace the concept of "going digital".

It's really nice to read the posts by some of you die-hard fans of analog tape machines, and know that I am not alone. I am definitely a purist at heart and I'm moving into the digital age with interest, but somewhat begrudgingly ;-)

My most recent album, "Raucoustic" was recorded entirely on a TASCAM 414, using all acoustic instruments. It was a deliberate attempt on my part to work with natural sounding instruments in a pure recording medium.

If you're interested in checking out some of my songs, please visit my music site at www.raucoustic.com

Thanks,
Kester
 
Blatant self promotion should very sparingly be done in the mp3 clinic, where you could suggest a singular song from your music for people to listen and comment on.

Doing that kind of thing here is kind of like SPAM!:mad:

Cheers! :)
 
Excuse me...

...just trying to share.

Not everybody is out to "blatantly self-promote"..

Geez!
 
Welcome to the Tascam forum Kester; having recorded an entire "album" on a 414 is an accomplishment, indeed. It takes some know-how to get good enough tracks to mixdown and expect people to pay for the final product. Do you do all the recording and mixing and everything else? I heard your Xmas w/o U and saw a video of a live performance on your site. The stream was good, and I could tell the recording was very well done for a cassette. I do all my recording on cassette, too. Sorry to hear you are going digital, but the industry, and therefore, the young artists, are going that way.

Cool website, too. But like Ghost said, let us find it in your profile ;)
 
thanks

Appreciate you taking time to listen.

Yes, I do everything myself!

The recordings passed the inspection of three sound engineers before I even considered "releasing" the CD. One of them actually wanted proof that it was recorded on a cassette porta-studio because he didn't think the sound quality I achieved was possible with such equipment.

Guess that speaks volumes for the capabilities of our beloved tape machines!

Certainly didn't realize what a major faux pas it is to offer a link to ones site here. I really only wanted to share my music with folks who might appreciate it. Not expecting to be a star or sell a lot of product. No offense intended.

Peace everybody!
 
What kind of 4-track do u have Kester? :) I have the Tascam 424 MK-III and while I do like the sound, I upgraded to a RME Multiface digital interface for my computer...mainly because I got sick of waiting for tapes to rewind, etc. I'm still experimenting with the sounds so I won't say which I prefer yet.
 
I know what you mean about tape vs. digital.
I just bought a 788 about a month ago. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about digital is that it will make everything sound good. Not so. You still need a good song,
and good musical performances. You gain a lot of flexibility with digital and if you cut a good album on a 424 you would probably be knocked out by a good 788 recording. I don't mean this as a bad thing, If you are capable of doing a recording that good on a 424 you must have a great ear for sound and know what you want the finished product to sound like when you start. I am 47 years old and recorded on most tape machines for years.
I am finding if you can apply a lot of the good things you've learned about analog and sucessfully apply it to digital the results are amazing. One engineer in a large studio told me that one of the secrets to good digital recording is great analog input signals. So far it's working for me.
 
the best of both worlds?

I actually used the 414 portastudio, which is just about as bare bones as possible. Having stuck with this same machine for years , one thing I have on my side is familiarity with the equipment and simplicity. But 4-tracks is really limited by anybody's terms. I recorded almost every tune "live" to two tracks, and with the remaining two tracks , decided how to best "dress the song up" with a second guitar or bass, or vocal harmony, or drums. It was a deliberate attempt to minimize and in a way I saw it as a protest to so much music being computer generated and losing its humanity.

When one works live to tape, the room and mic placement are obviously extremely important, and that's where the "great analog input signals" begin. I don't think the difference in results between digital and analog is really just an issue of technology. I think musicians these days really have too many options in terms of effects and editing and that it's easy for the song to get forgotten in it all. I may be old fashioned, but I still believe that the song needs to be the primary focus of any recording!

My main reason for "going digital" is to increase my number of tracks, because I want to have full acoustic drumkit on my upcoming projects. I still want to retain the simplicity of the tape machines, so I am trying to research my equipment choices very carefully so I end up with a set-up that is still in keeping with the techniques I've already learned but gives the flexibilty and options of the digital equipment. Tough to find that balance between the two worlds. I'm actually starting to favor the idea of a stand alone DAW over the PC method for that reason. Any suggestions are very welcome. Thanks everybody. And happy new year!
 
Okay after a lot of experimenting, I EASILY give the thumbs up to the RME Multiface digital setup. No tape hiss, suprisingly good quality sound that doesn't have that brittle/cold sound associated with other crappy digital i/o systems. And it has fairly accurate BASS. Compared to other similarly priced digital audio i/o cards that lack good bass reproduction, this unit is VERY nice. All in all, very happy. I'm giving my 424 to a friend :).

-dejacky
 
Why do you feel the need to go digital? Why not look into a pro or prosumer analog setup? I use an ATR 60 16 track reel machine and I highly doubt anyone could touch the sound quality with a sub-$5000 digital system.

Go reel baby, you will love it!
 
In a perfect world...

...music would have never gone digital at all.

We're all forced in one way or another to "go digital" just by virtue of putting our music out on CD or creating mp3's for the web. Sad but true.

It's the only reasonable solution for me given the number of songs and projects I am currently involved with, and the fact that a lot of my work involves collaborating, swapping WAV files, etc...

Also, I'm in a position where I have to buy a new computer anyway, and not much left in the budget for trying to buy/incorporate high end analog gear into my studio.

Believe me, when I win the lottery...it's analog all the way!!
 
Sure, if you want to give in.


Just because it eventualy ends up in digital doesn't take away the joy and awesome sound of analog tracking. You could do it for less than $1000. That's less than a good all-in-one DAW.

But it's true, you'd still need a good soundcard and computer so might as well be a pussy about it.:p
 
YOU'RE KILLING ME !

Actually, this whole decision is killing me, but the bottom line is, I have a budget of approximately $1700, and i HAVE to buy a computer, because I can no longer share my roommate's PC...
There goes half of my budget for the computer itself, so unless I want to continue working on my Tascam 414 indefinitely, I need to somehow make this work.

My major goal is to be able to record acoustic drums with at least 4 mics and hopefully a full band, or at least rhythm section simultaneously...so, something's gotta give.

If that can be done in analog for less than $1000, without buying a bunch of used/half-baked equipment, I'd love to know how.

Please share details, if you are so inclined.


aaarrrgggghhh......
 
I can dig'ya, baby!

I think you got really nice, & very respectable sound out of the 414. Is it the 414std or the mkII?

Don't mind Ghost FM, he just seemed a little edgy, there! I'd hardly call your post blatant self promotion! Your post and link to your website seemed entirely topical and proper. You made a point about specific recording equipment, and pointed to examples of recordings done on that specific unit. That is reasonable. Some people on bbs's should remember to not get too quick & snappy with the reactions, or with quoting verse and chapter of bbs etiquette to every new member who links to their stuff, in a very legitimate way. Geez, is right!

So, I can sense this "I gotta go digital" mood in you, [that I need to go digital to take it to a higher level], is implied. It's not necessarily the case, as others have pointed out, above.

Cool, that you need to buy a new 'puter for other reasons, okay, but there are numerous other recording options for people on a budget. As you may have found out, the Fostex MR-8 is a cool little $300 toy, and gives you 8 tracks at a new, unheard of low dollar value. However, you might also have noticed, that the MR-8 is a very limited recorder, in the big scheme of things. For someone who records basically by him/her self, and who doesn't mind being tethered to the computer for full functionality, then I suppose the MR-8 is fine. It's your MR-8, so you be the judge.

FWIW, I have the Fostex FD-8, as one of my "token" digital recorders, which handily blows away the MR-8 on overall features and value, plus the fact I got the FD-8, used/mint condition, for all of $300,... same dollar amount for the downsized and downscaled MR-8. That's just one example.

On the analog side of things, which is where I concentrate, and have most of my expertise, I can think of several great 8-track, full featured setups to get as USED equipment, that's a very high value for your dollar, given that you're not against buying used gear.

Those analog 8-track setups include, but are not limited to:

> Tascam 38, w/M-30 [8x4x2x2] analog mixer and 2/DX-4D dbx units. [38: Uses 1/2" tape]. Est-price ~$600.

> Tascam TSR-8, w/M308 [8x4x2x2] mixer, [B-model mixer preferred], also see M-312 & M-320. [TSR-8: Uses 1/2" tape]. Est-price ~$700.

> Tascam 388, all-in-one Portastudio style reel 8-track, w/built in 8x8x2 full functioned analog mixer. Est-price ~$450.

> Tascam 488mkII, cassette 8-track Portastudio, which [IMO] blows away the Fostex MR-8. Est-price ~$300.

GOOD JOB WITH THE 414, and GOOD LUCK WITH THE UPGRADE.;)
 
Thank you!

Hey, Reel Person! I sincerely appreciate you taking time to check out my music and for your kind words and suggestions.

I used the standard 414. No preamps, and just a pair of SM58's. I guess that's just about as bare bones as you can get. But I'm honestly very proud of the album, and learned so much in the process of making it.

I think what you sense in me as the "gotta go digital mood" stems mostly from a dire need for MORE TRACKS!! I really think with "Raucoustic" I took my music as far as I possibly can with four track cassette. The main thing for me is that my primary instrument is acoustic drums, and I have a lot of material that is just waiting to be brought to fruition once I can put the full kit behind it.

The truth is, I hated the thought of digital for so many years that I basically hid myself away with my portastudio. It was great for the songwriting, (which will always be number one to me) but it has set me behind the learning curve as far as engineering goes. So now I'm hell bent ot catch up!

I appreciate the suggestions of analog systems. I will certainly consider those things as I am working towards my dream studio. I truly love analog sound and always will!

I'm really glad that I got the MR-8 (my only digital anything) because it has really been a catalyst for me to open up my mind to all the possibilities. My music will always be primarily about the songs, but now I'm ready to learn about how to make them sound their best.

I appreciate this board, and everyone being willing to share their knowledge and talents!!
 
So what happened? did you settle with the MR-8? upgrade to a more analog solution? buy an overly priced computer?
 
Hey nice stuff, Kester... very refreshing (songs and your attitude).
 
Where things are for now...

Thanks SubA , for listening and for the kind words!

dejacky, so far I haven't made any final decisions about how I will ultimately do my tracking. I think what I'm striving for is the best of both worlds - a way to take my years of experience with analog/portastudio recording and incorporate it with the PC(without the technology getting in the way of the process too much)

I did just get my new computer and having it in the studio with me is a major step forward. For now, I'm going to take some baby steps and continue my research. I'm still using the 414 when I am in my right brain mode (which is most of the time) for writing and capturing ideas. I will use the MR-8 (and probably nTrack) as a way of experimenting with the digital realm, as well as getting a small mixer connected to my soundcard that will allow me to experiment with recording direct to my computer. And slowly but surely move towards adding more tracks (the ultimate goal) so that I can have my drumkit on any song I want at will!

I'm still open to all possible combinations of gear at this point . And always open to keeping the connection to analog recording.

Thanks to everybody for your interest and support!

I'll keep ya posted.

~Kester
 
Cool.
Well, I don't think one need more than 3 mics on drums...really. You can get an excellent sound with one mic on the bass drum, one a few feet directly above the snare and the other overhead to the side. This way, you'll have no phase problems and get a very nice stereo image. Someone on www.prorec.com discussion forums described the exact micing distances, etc... I've also recorded 4 tracks simultaneously on my Tascam while having the stereo outs feed the simple Mic-Input on my computer, so 4 analog tracks are mixed down to 2 digital ones instantlyi. You can keep doing this as many times as you like because you can have easily 24 playback tracks on your pc. Also, this lets you get the analog 4-track sound in the digital realm. IMO, the 4-track preamps have a LOT to do with that analog sound. I wish you asked me for a computer recommendation, coulda recommended you something super cheap/reliable/best bang for your buck since I'm a computer nerd. :eek: .

-dejacky
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top