Stereo Panning Problem with Sonar

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Douhgy

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The panning features in sonar are not working for me. my mix comes out in stereo when I export the file to a WAV, but when I am messing with right/left panning, it does not actually pan it until I export. Does anyone know a solution to this? I want to be able to HEAR the changes as I am making them, instead of having to export it every time I want to hear the stereo mix.
 
Are you working with stereo tracks or mono tracks?

Stereo tracks can be difficult to work with when it comes to panning.
 
Also, are you using the panning slider next to the volume slider, or the one next to the Aux bus?

The one next to the Aux bus only pans the signal being sent to the bus. Obviously you should use the one next to the Vol slider. (I know, pretty basic, but it doesn't hurt to ask.)
 
Also, make shure you're not in Offset mode. Are there little '+' signs next to Volume, Pan and the other controllers in the Track View? Then you're in Offset mode. Hit 'O' [as in Omega] and you're set.
 
moskus said:
Also, make shure you're not in Offset mode. Are there little '+' signs next to Volume, Pan and the other controllers in the Track View? Then you're in Offset mode. Hit 'O' [as in Omega] and you're set.

Nope, not in offset mode. I messed with that for a while and it didn't solve the problem.
 
dachay2tnr said:
Stereo tracks can be difficult to work with when it comes to panning.

Dachay, why is this?

When I have midi tracks, They are in Stereo. When I record them, they sound either mono or very limited stereo. What's up with that? It is very frustrating.

When I have recorded a midi track to mono, no problemo. I can pan it anywhere I want. When I record several midi tracks to a stereo track, it doesnt work. What the heck am I doing wrong?
Shouldnt I just press stereo and record, and then it sounds just like I hear it in midi?

I have a Darla24 Soundcard.
 
DavidK said:
Dachay, why is this?

When I have midi tracks, They are in Stereo. When I record them, they sound either mono or very limited stereo. What's up with that? It is very frustrating.

When I have recorded a midi track to mono, no problemo. I can pan it anywhere I want. When I record several midi tracks to a stereo track, it doesnt work. What the heck am I doing wrong?
Shouldnt I just press stereo and record, and then it sounds just like I hear it in midi?

I have a Darla24 Soundcard.
OK, let me try this one.

At its heart, stereo is an illusion. Basically you have just two spots from where sound eminates (e.g. a left and right speaker). Yet the sounds can "seem" to come from not only the left and right, but from from anywhere inbetween as well.

When you pan a mono track, essentially all you are doing is determining how much of your signal is going to each speaker. If a mono track is panned 100% left, all of the signal will come from the left speaker and none of it will come out of the right speaker, and you will hear it on your left. If you pan it dead center, an equal amount of signal will come out of the left and right speakers, BUT you will "hear" it as if it is coming from the center (the illusion).

The same happens with inbetween settings. If you pan 50% left, more signal will be sent to the left than to the right, and the sound will "appear" to move towards the left (where the stronger signal is). But not fully left, because there is still some signal being heard out of the right speaker.

Now let's take a stereo track. With a stereo track you already have a left and and right source. Let's use a recorded piano track as an example, and let's assume the the lower register keys are on the left track, while the higher register keys are on the right track. When you play the track with a center pan, it sounds as if you are sitting at the piano playing it.

When you pan this track left or right, however, you simply cause more of the left track to be played than the right track (and if you pan it fully left, you will only hear the left track). So instead of moving the sound, you just make the lower keys louder and the higher keys softer (or vice-versa if you pan right).

Following?? Since a stereo track has two sources of sound, panning simply favors one source over the other. Think of this like your home stereo. If you are playing a CD, and you pan to the left or right, the band doesn't "move." Rather, you simply hear the instruments that are on the left track, and no longer hear the instruments that are on the right track.

In mono, there is just a single source, so when you pan you are in essence causing it to "appear" as if that signal moved.

I hope that helps. I don't think I did a good job of explaining.

P.S. I'm not going to hold you. :D
 
Coolest thing ever...
If you have a true stereo track going on and you want to pan it around a little, you need something like Waves S1... it allows you to pan the stereo image around without the image collapsing, which is probably what you are hearing. Cool plug, really, I like it, and there are some cool things it does, too. Its also an MS decoder.
Peace!
 
Thanks Dachay,

I dont think I explained myself correctly. I dont pan the stereo track, I leave it where it is.

Why doesnt the stereo part sound Identical to my pre-panned midi parts? if I recorded a stereo midi part into a tape deck, it would sound exactly like it was in midi. In SONAR, it doesnt work that way.

If I record stereo midi drums, should I arm two tracks and record them as mono left and mono right?:confused:
 
DavidK said:
If I record stereo midi drums, should I arm two tracks and record them as mono left and mono right?:confused:

I always record external sources to indivually armed mono tracks. It give you so much more flexibility.
Works like a charm.
-BM
 
Thanx Bibleman ( and Tubedude). I am going to try and experiment with that tonight.
 
Sorry David, I thought you were asking why it was difficult to pan a stereo track.

What is that you are doing? Are you recording midi to audio? What is the source of the midi? Not quite clear on your problem.

I don't see where recording to two separate mono tracks, or one stereo track would make any difference whatsoever - except in giving you some flexibility as Bible Man indictated. Other than that, they should sound exactly the same.
 
Dachay,

I use a mixer, Spirit F1. I have several keyboards.

Mixer into Darla, Darla back to mixer.

If I import a .wav or Mp3 into SONAR, it works fine in Stereo.
My Keyboards sound great in Stereo(before recording). When I record them in stereo, it doesnt have the same stereo imaging, it almost sounds mono. I dont know what I am doing wrong.

Hold... Ahh, forget it:rolleyes:

I am not an expert on mixers, but I dont see how this could be the problem.
 
I assuming the keys are going into the mixer first, correct?

There should be left and right out connections from the keyboard. Those connections should go to two channels on your mixer (e.g., left output into channel one and right output into channel two).

You then need to feed those two mixer channels into your Darla (e.g., mixer channel one into Darla #1 input and mixer channel two into Darla #2 input). You could also use the mixer main outs and run them into the Darla, but in doing so you will also pick up anything else that is going through the mixer. Best to go directly from the channels using the channels' direct out connections (or inserts if you don't have direct outs).

In Sonar you want to set your track input as Darla 1/2 Stereo. (Or, as Bible Man suggested you could use two tracks and set the input for one as "Darla 1/2 Left" and the other input as "Darla 1/2 right.") Either way should get you the same stereo sound - just in one case you'll have a single stereo track, whereas in the other you'll have two mono tracks (representing the left signal and the right signal).

This should get the same stereo sound as the keyboards put out naturally. If your keys are sounding mono after being recorded, I suspect you are not connecting things properly.

If the above doesn't make sense, descibe for us how you connect the keys to the mixer to the soundcard, and then how you have Sonar set up to record the signal.
 
dachay2tnr said:
I assuming the keys are going into the mixer first, correct?

There should be left and right out connections from the keyboard. Those connections should go to two channels on your mixer (e.g., left output into channel one and right output into channel two).

On my mixer, the pan pots are set to hard right on one channel and hard left on the other. Then I would do everything else as Dachay suggested... I don't know if you are leaving the pan pots center or not. My mixer also has channels 5/6 and 7/8 as stereo channels. If I am using either of those channels I leave the pan in the center...

Vice
 
Hmmm... nice thread... FYI... couple years ago when I bought Mackie 1202, I always thought if we put stereo signal into one stereo line in in Mackie, then we send aux 1 to L line in of the sound card, and aux 2 to R Line in of the sound card, then I will record stereo (LR) track. I always assumed the L signal will be sent to aux 1 only, and R signal will be sent to aux 2. WRONG!!! They both were sent to both aux 1 & 2 that way. No matter pre or post. :D This is silly... but I spent days to cover what went wrong when I record MIDI tom's from keyboard. It goes stereo in my monitor, but recorded as "duo mono". Make sure you put DIFFERENT CHANNEL on your mixer to each L & R. Say ch 1 for keyboard's L output and ch 2 for Keyboard's R output. Pan them hard Left and right. Open aux 1 on ch 1 but close aux 2. Open aux 2 on ch 2 but close aux 1. Now you can route aux 1 to L input soundcard, and aux 2 to R input soundcard... Happy recording.

;)
James
 
Frustrating.

Here are the facts:

I can hear my keys in Stereo.
I can hear my imports in stereo.

Look at the attachment. Left and right are a little different, they should be dramatically different.
 

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