STEREO not panned mono

  • Thread starter Thread starter twist
  • Start date Start date
T

twist

New member
I record on an 8 track portastudio. If I record all 8 tracks in mono, is there a way to create a stereo mix? Like some of the programs in my guitar effects processor turn the mono guitar signal into a stereo signal, and it sounds great, but I dont want to record the guitar in stereo because it would use up 2 tracks instead of just one. I've tried runing my mix through some delays and reverbs, but it just is'nt quite right.
What do the pros do? Just record everything in stereo?
 
Sure there is a way, and yes it involves panning, no way around that.

I think most people record things in mono. Unless it's overheads on a drum kit, or an acoustic guitar, amoung other things.

With 8 mono tracks, the only way to have stereo is to pan. That's the way it is. Stereo is often achieved from panned mono.

Depending on the style, If your John Williams (the classical guitarist, not the orchestra guy), 2 mic's setup capturing the single performance rocks.

Mono ain't so bad, i'm finding too many double miced instruments cloud the mix instead of helping it. Less is more, don't use 2 mic's when 1 will do the job.

Keep panning.
 
Stereophonic Sounds

This may have cleared up my confusion on the whole mono/stereo business...so if I take a mono track of, let's say, a guitar, and pan it slightly left, it becomes stereo? I was told I need two seperate tracks with two seperate mics panned left/right to be stereo...If panning a mono track makes it stereo, then I am very excited...I can record 8 different instruments on my 8 track (Tascam 688)...Now let's say I'm recording guitar, could I take 2 mics on 2 channels, pan one channel slightly left, one slightly right, and record that onto one track and that would be stereo?
 
Stereo is two signals, mono is one signal. Lets use a 4-track for the sake of example. Each track is mono: there is only one signal there. The built-in mixer has a stereo buss, which consists of a left and right channel. The pan knob tells the mixer how much of each track to send to the left side, and how much to send to the right side. At center, it should send an equal amount of the mono signal to both sides. A mono guitar panned to the left is still a mono guitar... only with a stereo placement in the resulting stereo mix. To truly record something in stereo requires 2 mono tracks that are not identical. You can also process mono tracks with outboard gear to end up with a stereo result but you'll have to figure out the routing on your own. Follow the signal, it's your sound.
 
OK then...there is a difference between a stereo MIX and a stereo track, right? Taking a mono bass track and a mono guitar track and panning one slightly left and the other right would create a stereo mix, keeping them center would be a mono mix, but taking 2 signals from 2 differently positioned mics and recording em onto one or two tracks would create the stereo track? And is what I asked in my other post do-able:

"Now let's say I'm recording guitar, could I take 2 mics on 2 channels, pan one channel slightly left, one slightly right, and record that onto one track and that would be stereo?"
 
Not onto one track. Onto one stereo track which is merely two mono tracks panned left and right. The .wav format (among others) allows for this situation.
 
I like to think of a buss as nothing more than a mono channel that can carry sound. The L/R buss is nothing special-- just a pair of mono channels. By convention, we usually send one to the left speaker and the other to the right speaker.

A simplified signal path during playback (-- one signal; == two signals):

source track -->
--> mixer section -->
--> EQ -->
--> Fader -->
--> Pan ==> L/R buss

Up to the point of the pan circuitry, there is just one signal. The pan just splits the signal in half (both are exactly the same) and routes the right amount to L/R. All the tracks come together on the L/R buss after the mixing circuitry does it's thing for each one individually.

If you're recording two signals to one track, you'll still be in mono. Two signals to two tracks is what you need. You'd then pan those wherever you want during playback (remember they're just 2 mono signals, in reality). I hope this clears up more than it confuses :D.
 
Well you're close to answering my original question, but not quite. Thanks everyone for responding.
I think pglewis is closest. I understand the difference between stereo and mono, and I understand about busses and panning and signal routing etc. He mentions processing mono signals with outboard gear. That is what I've been experimenting with, but I don't know what to use. Sometimes I get close with a reverb or delay.
When I listen to professionally recored music, each instument occupies a unique position in the stereo field, but it also has true stereo characteristics. ie; it's left channel characteristics are not identical to it's right channel characteristics.
What are you guys doing? Are you mixing panned mono? Does a professional mastering job then produce a true stereo recording? Is this something that could be more easily accomplished with a DAW? If so, I,m there!
Please help! And thanks again.

twist
 
OK, so the only way to get a TRUE stereo recording is to do two tracks per instrument? 2 guitar tracks, 2 drum tracks...etc, so in reality, with an 8 track recorder, I can only get 4 stereo tracks (without bouncing of course)? Or would it still be stereo if I panned a mono track to the left and another to the right...? Sorry for being slightly repetative, I just like understanding the technicalities of shit like this.

And to try to attempt twist's question...some people double up on the guitar, or more...what I mean is that they record one guitar track, and then record another identical guitar track. I hear Weezer does this. That gives you a nice full sound. Or they use two mics on the amp, one close up and one not-so-close, record to two tracks. That's true stereo (I guess?). And then they can record two MORe tracks of the same guitar part.
 
I think a true stereo recording would be micing an instrument with 2 mic's, recorded to 2 tracks panned left right. No additional tracks allowed. Anything else added is just superimposed.

But that would take the fun out of overdubbing.

pglewis pretty much covered it all. With an 8 track, exactly, you have the option to double mic 4 instruments.

Everything ends up being mixed down down to 2 tracks - ending up left speaker/right speaker (avoiding surround sound). Where you place each mono instrument in the stereo field, dead center/left/right slightly left etc etc. (as well as FX/reverbEQ) is what creates your stereo image - but it's just that, it's a representation, an illusion.
 
Another way that involves 2 tracks (as is necessary for stereo) is to run a direct out from a recorded track through some effects like reverb & delay or amp and record that effected signal to another track. Of course you need to have the track space... Since I'm broke, I try to use the room acoustics and multiple mics to achieve something like this. A mic that's placed significantly far away from the source will have tons of reverb and a very slight delay. Then pan, mix, and eq each track, voila; typical definition of stereo recording. It softens the sound of a hard-panned instrument, which is sometimes preferrable to panning closer to center, if you dig my meaning.
 
twist: Here's what I do... record multiple tracks (like El Barto mentioned). For "stereo" guitars, I prefer to do 2 takes for the slight variance in performance that ends up giving a "fuller" stereo sound. I don't always pan hard left/right. Often I'll pan 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, or even 10 and 2. But the bottom-line answer is probably not what you want to hear: use more tracks, I don't think outboard gear is the answer.

El Barto: I don't usually worry about "stereo" tracks. I work on creating a stereo image from mono tracks like Emeric said in his last paragraph. There's lots of ways to do this, and it can be every bit as creative as songwriting when you start experimenting. The main places I would normally reserve 2 tracks for an equal L/R mix are: drum overheads, main guitar riffs, and vocs. The rest of the time, I just use one track and then place it somewhere in the resulting mix. Mixing is really just the art of combining muliple channels into two.
 
Alright guys, thanks for all your replies. It all makes sense to me now...time to do some stereophonic recordings! And by the way, I love this BBS.
 
WOW! And I thought this was going to be simple!
One thing I would still like to make very clear, is even if you record the same guitar part 8 different times, on 8 different tracks, and pan some of them left, and some of them right, even though you might have a big fat sound, it is still 8 mono recordings.
I guess pglewis is right; I'll just have to record each part in stereo.
And yes, El Barto, you are also right when you say that that makes my 8 track machine a four track machine. Now i'm depressed.
How about if i get a DAW, record four stereo parts, dump it to the DAW, then record over a couple of the original parts on my Tascam, and then dump them to the DAW until I have as many parts as I want?
Seems like the hard way to do things.
Twist
 
There are two things I do to get a full sound. Sometimes I use two mics on the same source, each mic recorded mono onto its own track - the sound has fullness and depth, and is way better than just one mic. The other thing is to record the sound source with just one mic, recorded mono to one track. Then in the software, I duplicate that track, then pan one of them left, one of them right - you can pan one side harder than the other if you want to position the sound off center in the stereo field. Similar fullness of sound. I think I like the sound of the double miking method better, but I love the simplicity and cleanness of tracking with just one mic on one sound source. I think Emeric's right about too much double miking creating problems in the mix. Simple's best for me.
 
dobro, I heard that just gives you a dual mono mix...copying the track and panning it left and right. twist, you could always record two tracks, pan and bounce it down externally, then record it onto one track. I've considered using this technique...using a VCR to bounce to.
 
Bingo... unless you offset one of the tracks a tiny bit, it's just an identical copy which will just double the volume of that track.

As for bouncing stereo tracks to just one track... you're gonna end up mono. Pan makes no difference on a mono track. Remember that when you're playing back, the pan knob is controlling the mix to the stereo buss. The stereo buss is irrelevant when you're recording. It's there for the playback.
 
el barto - yes, I think you're right. I think it's time for me to give up on this one.

pglewis - is it true that if you offset tracks the way you suggest, then the recording can't be played, for example, on TV? I've been hearing something about this over at audioforums.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top