Stepping up my cassette based set-up

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Judson

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Hello,

I am new here but have read a ton. I am not new to producing but I do have a few quick questions about a set-up I am about to purchase.

What I have been doing:
I have been recording to cassette for a long long time but just a simple sony home entertainment cassette. I use samplers and record my synths, guitars, drums, and some vocals into them to sequence and process. Once I have my song laid out I go strait to cassette just one stereo channel. Any overdubs are usually done on the computer, I mostly track vocals on the computer.

Some examples of the process:
http://www.myspace.com/sumsumsun


What I want to do:
A local guy on craigslist is selling a Tascam 238 with a Tascam M-30 for a reasonable price. I am positive I am going to pick this up because that has been my dream set up for quite some time. But I have no clue how to use them. I know how to record to the deck, and I think I know how to hook up the board for mixing (outs from each channel on the 238 into the individual inputs on the M-30's channels? then master out into computer/another cassette/VHS).


Is there anything else I need to know about this set up that might be tricky? or do I have any of the info wrong?

I am going to pick it up the day after tomorrow so I will be able to play with it soon (so excited!) but I am worried this set-up will have me frustrated.


My plan is to record to the 238, mix to Hi Fi VHS then take that to a local studio I get good rates at to convert to digital using their Apogee and other high end equipment. I feel this will be a very solid set-up. You can probably hear the one I am using right now isn't quite cutting it.


any and all feedback appreciated. even if its to tell me Im no good and should quit making music! : ]
 
hey. i've been recording with cassettes a while now. i use a tascam 414 mk II (which is a great unit if you're looking for a 4 track.)

i have heard nothing but bad things about mixing down to VHS. the tascam looks great, however.

if you want to mix down digitally i recommend you set up a cheap audio interface on your computer, they are fairly inexpensive these days.

good luck!
 
thanks for the reply

hmm, I was under the impression it was better than mixing to cassette. I listen to underground electronic music and buy VHS that bands and labels put out.

Ive got a few interfaces already but I am trying to improve my signal chain and will take it to a recording studio to digitize anyway. Also I am trying to go all analog, digitizing is just to share my music/prepare it for the next step in post production.

I can scratch the VHS if it doesn't work out but I was wondering if their is anything tricky I need to know about the 8 track and mixing board combination. or if there is a better alternative at a reasonable price.
 
I don't know much about mixing to VHS-hifi, I've heard of that from reliable sources, but never tried it. You could get something like the M-Audio 2496, which runs $125 give or take, it is a decent sound card, and mix to that. Try and A/B and see which you prefer.

The 238 is a marvel of engineering, I've heard good things about it. Sounds like a nice setup. Is this the dbx or Dolby version?
 
Judson said:
hmm, I was under the impression it was better than mixing to cassette. I listen to underground electronic music and buy VHS that bands and labels put out.

Ive got a few interfaces already but I am trying to improve my signal chain and will take it to a recording studio to digitize anyway. Also I am trying to go all analog, digitizing is just to share my music/prepare it for the next step in post production.

I can scratch the VHS if it doesn't work out but I was wondering if their is anything tricky I need to know about the 8 track and mixing board combination. or if there is a better alternative at a reasonable price.
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Missed your last post before responding, sorry.

Don't know the price here so can't comment on "reasonebly priced alternatives" but seems a great combination. Do you have get manuals for both machines? There is plenty of help here with connections etc, if you have trouble.

Here are others comments on VHS-hifi

VHS Hi Fi will not give you an "analog tape" sound. You can say it's "not digital" and it's "tape" but it records and plays back in a very different way from normal analog reel to reel or cassette.

Just try it and listen. Push the record level into the red and you just get clipping and harshness
Click to expand...

I also don't like the fact that many VHS decks have automatic compression. I'd rather mix to audio cassette or computer.
Reply With Quote
Click to expand...

from this thread:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=295375
 
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Hey Judson, my first home studio used a 1/2" 8 track reel machine and a stereo hi-fi VHS for mix down / mastering. We then dubbed cassettes off the VHS to sell. We used to do indie on it and it worked just fine. Mind you, it was '92. Digital in those days was bad and expensive. I didn't have a problem with stereo VHS then and I still don't.
 
How do you guys feel about the nasty (at least to me) automatic compression seen in many VHS decks?

BTW, I think the 238 / 30 is a fantastic combo. It's more important that you're getting it local and that the thing checks out fine. Is the 238 direct drive or belt driven? Be aware that all of the rubber may need to be taken care of now or in the near future (capstan belt, control belt, pinch roller).

There is an M-30 manual on this forum and it goes through some connection diagrams.
 
Ah yes, that, Daniel. I remember a post about that whole thing a few months ago, yes?

I did a guitar and vocal recording of a cat playing a bunch of tunes directly into a six head VHS for me to learn about four years ago that had the limiter function embedded in it and quite liked what it did - d'oh :o.

The old deck I had in the early nineties didn't have it if I recall. It had manual level control. The old one that I have now in my studio that I got from a pawn shop also has manual level control. I don't think it has the limiter either. I guess it'd be easy enough to find out just by pushing some program material into it at various levels and see what happens.

I've been thinking for a while to set it up to mix down the next four track cassette project and then dub the final cassettes off it like I used to do all those years ago. It might be an interesting comparison. At least the tape is dirt cheap :)

Mostly though - I watch old movies on it. Ha ha.
 
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jedblue said:
The old deck I had in the early nineties didn't have it if I recall. It had manual level control. The old one that I have now in my studio that I got from a pawn shop also has manual level control. I don't think it has the limiter either.
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Yeah, that'd be cool to have control over the settings, like the compression over-ride and such. I like those old VHS recorders, the top loader ones especially with the large clunking press buttons.:D
 
You guys are worse than me. I thought I was bad getting a laser disc player so I could watch Star Wars without the new CGI edits...
 
8 track cassette

Dont think that a great sounding album cant be made with 8 track cassette. The Frogs album "Star Job" was done on an 8 track cassette and it sounds great. If you want to hear a track off it, they have one song off that album on their myspace page called "Star Boy". Link is here:

http://www.myspace.com/thefrogs

Of course myspace quality is crap, but i have the album and it sounds nice. You never get the feeling that it should be higher fidelity or anything like that. The sound is just nice and smooth.

I also have an M30 mixer which i personally love. Its very easy to use and with a flick of a switch you can be hearing anything you need to at any given time.

Heres a pic of The Frogs recording the album "Starjob", which was produced by Billy Corgan on an 8 track cassette recorder (for those who are interested):

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...endID=9991489&albumID=928179&imageID=29368842
 
Welcome to the forum. I have read mixed reviews on VHS mixing. I would try it and see what you think. Happy to see another analog freak out their.
 
Blue Jinn said:
You guys are worse than me. I thought I was bad getting a laser disc player so I could watch Star Wars without the new CGI edits...
Click to expand...

A sincere bravo...the CGI edits are the worst thing in any new copy of "Star Wars". I'm sure my kids are getting tired of me whining every time one of the new scenes comes up when we are watching, but they stick out like a smashed thumb. :mad:

And +1 to the M-30 and 238 being a good combo. I hope it is the dbx version and not the Dolby S version though just from a longevity standpoint. The Dolby S versions (the "238S") are reputed to have better sounding performance, but the proprietary Dolby chips have a reputation for going bad and are staunchly unobtanium AFAIK. My 2p. If I ever got another 238 it'd be a dbx version (the "238"...no "S").

Good luck and welcome!
 
Horror Story

Thanks for all the replies guys!


Well, I just got back from the sellers house empty handed. He was the worst craigslist seller I have ever delt with. They were in an uninsulated garage in muggy hot south Florida. It is raining today and apparently the garage has a leak because everything was covered in tarps and was very damp. It was a night mare. The guy had so much stuff I would have wanted if it wasn't all rotting away. He had a Roland Space Echo where the torlex and wood on the top had been eaten through and exposed the tape which was probably full of mold. There were moldy moldy gibson guitar cases too, which I pray were empty. Who just lets that stuff go to waste? I offered him a LOW price after taking one look at the mold on the leather on the front of the M-30 but he said he could get more for it, so I wished him luck and left asap.

Needless to say I am not happy with the experience!


They are not up on ebay right now so I will wait my turn. I thought I was going to be tracking today and hand out cassettes at the show tonight! It did seem like it was too good to be true but oh well, his loss for letting all that gear go to waste more than mine I guess.


On the VHS nasty compression thing, I think that is what I was going for. A lot of the music I enjoy has that nasty lofi squeeze that I think might come from mixing down to VHS. I am going to experiment with it summing from my DAW tomorrow probably, ive been really busy this week.


Again thanks for all the replies, I wish it could have worked out. Ill let yall know if I find anything similar soon!
 
Oh and one more question. If I do manage to pick up a Tascam 238 what other board besides the Tascam M series would go well with it?


I might be wrong but modern boards do not have individual channel outputs like the M-30(?).


I have looked some online but not done my research so sorry if its not the smartest question.
 
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