Standard mic input totally worthless?

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Sputnik10

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I have just bought two preamps that I want to check out before deciding what preamp to go with/keep.

I bought:
M-Audios Audio Buddy
Behringer Tube Ultragain Mic200

I also have an condenser microfon that seems to be alright.
Now to the question.

I just use a regular soundcard (like soundblaster) and no real soundcard for home recording. I go with the standard mic input that so many uses for there basic free comp mic :)

It is totally IMPOSSIBLE to record anything without get a VERY NOISY signal!
I hope this doesnt have anything with my preamps to do with.... but it should be possible to get a non-good but an acceptable sound with any soundcard I think, so it keeps me wonder.

How is this enormous nois possible?
 
you should be taking the output of the audio buddy or ultra gain into
soundcard LINE INPUT NOT MIC INPUT.
you are getting electronic mismatches. try line input.
also mic input on sb IS NOISY. its a consumer card.
an example of a proper signal chain is...
pro mic (with 3 pin xlr) >>>>audio buddy or ultragain mic input(XLR)
>>>>line input of a delta sound card for example.
peace.
 
Is there a big difference between the XLR input and regular input in quality?
 
i dont know what your referring to.
audio buddy ? ultragain ?.
the basic rule is to use low impedence microphones - normally terminate in XLR into the xlr input on a mic pre or mixer ie mic input.
line inputs go into line inputs eg : a synth with a line out would go into the line input of a mixer or direct into a sound card line input.
or if your pre has a line input the synth could go into the pre line input.
 
Sputnik10 said:
Is there a big difference between the XLR input and regular input in quality?
Click to expand...

XLR and 1/4" TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) inputs are normally a balanced input. There is no real quality difference between those and a "regular" (un-balanced) input other than noise rejection abilities.

The main cause of all the noise you are getting is, in fact, due to you using the Mic input of your soundcard. The microphone preamp circuit on standard soundcards is junk. For a lack of better words, but by using the Mic input of your card ... you are basically running a preamp into a preamp. Not a good scenario.
You want to run the output of the outboard preamp to the Line In of your soundcard and make sure that the Line in is selected as the recording device in Windows mixer. Double click the little speaker by the clock > click Options > click Properties > click the little button for Recording > place a check mark at all of the items listed under "Show the following volume controls" > click OK > now you are looking at the controls for recording > place a check mark in the "Select" box for the Line in fader > Set the Line In fader to around 75% full volume.
The Line input of a standard soundcard is a stereo input very much similar to a TRS only it's not balanced, instead the three separate areas of the connector carry the left and right signals as well as the ground. So, for a single channel preamp you will need an adapter to split that 1/8" line input of the soundcard into two mono inputs of whatever size jack (most likely 1/4") that the preamps output is.
This cable and this adapter will effectively split the 1/8" stereo line in of the soundcard to two 1/4" mono jacks.

HTH

-Ken
 
Thanks for that reply! It helped!

I will try it later but I have set the settings to line in now...
However the TRS cable sounds/looks to be the same as regular contacts for me? You described them as three.... xlr, trs and regular.
Regular contacts has that tip ring sleeve!? and is the same that goes into the soundcard (with an adapter). Please explain that to me if I didnt get it :)

also... my card has only two inputs and an output sadly, mic in, line in and out. Guess Im anly able to get mono on this card..
 
Running short on time .... need to head off to work.
A regular soundcard can record in stereo via the Line input. The plug has three sections to it Tip Ring and Sleeve. Yet those sections carry the left right and ground. You split them with the cabling I suggested. Using two mics and two preamps you will have stereo. Or, using a mixer you can send a single mic to both left and right via your panning.
I gotta get going, but the stuff I recommended will allow you to take one mic and one preamp and record a mono track, which you should be able to pan however you like within the recording program you use.
If I can ... I will try and explain in greater detail tonight.
 
I think I understand what you are saying... well a little basically ;)

I plugged my pre amp in the line in and whola! no noise except a little, very little from my electric guitar that I plugged In (doesnt count right now).
I did only get sound from my left speaker (mono) as you said.

If I understand you correctly... there is only one line in on soundcards BUT, who is competent to get stereo but the unbalanced preamp cable just makes it mono.

But how do people record vocals if ONE preamp only does mono? Is that corrected in software? My audio buddy has two preamps in one but these signals arent connected to each other so it sounds ridiculous that I have to record vocals with two mic s at the same time (taped together) :P I must have missed something here I guess.

I have two preamps in one... one microfone and one line in. Thats what people say is all you need to record vocals, guitars etc one at the time.
But I dont think peple record their instruments all finished mono..
Am I forced to get a mixer that split the signal into stereo in my line in?

Does other (real musik soundcards) have two line ins ( left and right) that enables you to record in stereo from one preamp with a split cable?

This is really confusing.... sorry If I dont get it... because I really dont right now. It doesnt make any sense to me.
 
lets see if i can explain this. the line in of your SB is STEREO.
LEFT AND RIGHT.THINK TWO CHANNELS. it would help to know what recording software you use.
so there are several options if your recording software allows this. you can record in STEREO (by setting the track in your recording software) ,
or MONO through the left input or MONO through the right input.
lets take this further. for arguments sake lets say your recording
a group of singers with TWO microphones into seperate mixer channels
(one panned left , one panned right) you would go stereo out of the mixer
(eg via cable lets say with two rca male jacks on one end and a mini jack on the other to plug into the sb line in mini jack ) into the sb stereo line input. on the track itself prior to recording you would set the track for STEREO RECORDING. AND NOT TOUCH THE PAN
in the software. on playback you would hear in stereo the singers around the microphone, assuming you had arrayed them correctly to create the stereo image.
now lets take that same group of singers with ONE MIC.
you would set your track to MONO and on some software it lets you
tell it whether the right or left channel. in MONO with one mic;
the mic would be plugged into the mixer. pan set at LEFT OR RIGHT. and the cabling from the mixer group out would not need to change to the sound card. alternatively you could take a direct out of the channel.
(but we wont touch that right now).
now further example - if NOW we assume each of our singers instead of gathering round two mics (stereo) or one (mono) - we split them up.
into groups of 3 - each group having its own MIC and we passed each mic to a PREAMP and we wanted to record each mic to a seperate track then in this case you would need a multiple input sound card. not a SB.
eg
mic1>>>mic pre1>>> sndcard input 1
mic2>>>mic pre2>>> sndcard input 2
mic3>>>mic pre3>>> sndcard input 3
mic4>>>mic pre4>>> sndcard input 4
and so on and so forth.
in this case once the record button was clicked in the software ,
the 4 mics would be recorded to 4 different MONO tracks.
the 4 different mono tracks could then be panned anywhere your hearts desire. and once happy create a stereo mix for mastering.
long winded but i hope this helps.
if still confused. ask.
 
OK .....
Lemme see if I can add to this mess of confusion :cool:
First off .... lets forget all about the balanced and un-balanced stuff, OK? Good.
The Line In on your soundcard is Stereo .... it offers two channels, Left and Right. You can also look at it as two Mono inputs that know no stereo image (left or right) except for the fact of the soundcard it's self wanting to send the signal of what it uses for the left channel to the left speaker ... likewise for the right channel. This is pry what is throwing you off, as you are most likely playing or singing through the preamp while at the same time trying to hear it through the speakers. Of course this offers very little latency as you are basically doing direct monitoring. Typically one would mute the line in of the soundcard via double clicking the little speaker by the clock. Then input monitoring would be enabled within the recording software you use.
However, with most multitrack recording software you are able to record a mono track (using just one of the soundcards channels). Which then can be panned (within the recording software) to playback through both the left and right speakers.
When recording vocals or even guitar it's not necessary to record a Stereo track unless you are using some form of outboard stereo effects. If no special effect is being used, recording a stereo track would just put the same audio on both the left and right sides. The same result can be had by simply panning a mono track straight up 12:00 within the software. By the way. What software are you using? That bit of info would help in giving you suggestions on configuring it for your recordings.
At this point, my recommendation would be to keep the Audio Buddy and look into the cable and adapter I linked to in my previous post. This will effectively give you two channels into your computer.
Once we know what software you are using, more advice will follow. Or we could advise of some decent software.
I'll recommend n-Track and manning1 will recommend Powertracks. (Beat ya to it) :D

Also .... remember to forget .... about balanced and un-balanced for now. ;)

-Ken
 
Ok, I think I get it now... :rolleyes:

The software "panning" will solve the "mono" problem and some other software/soundcard options will make it able to hear both left/right when directly recording.. right?

Now to the part I absolutely didnt get from the beginning:
"At this point, my recommendation would be to keep the Audio Buddy and look into the cable and adapter I linked to in my previous post. This will effectively give you two channels into your computer."
This, I dont get at all :p

My Audio Buddy has two outputs and is not linked together at all because that they are like two different instruments...( lets say 1 is guitar and 2 is vocals) My comp. has only one input... the pre amp has only one output.
The cable you recommended has three plugs??

If you mean that this cable is good when I record guitar (preamp 1) and vocals (preamp 2) at the same time into my soundcard I understand you. That makes threee plugs (two in preamp, one in soundcard)
But it doesnt makes any sense to me if you just mean vocals. Do you understand my confusion? :)

Sorry for this mess BTW ;)
 
Sputnik10 said:
If you mean that this cable is good when I record guitar (preamp 1) and vocals (preamp 2) at the same time into my soundcard I understand you. That makes threee plugs (two in preamp, one in soundcard)
But it doesnt makes any sense to me if you just mean vocals. Do you understand my confusion?
Click to expand...

Exactly .... this will connect both preamps of the Audio Buddy to the soundcard. Thus allowing you to record two mono tracks simultaneously. Or in the case of just vocals, you will just use one of the preamps (one of the inputs) of the Audio Buddy. In that case, the soundcard will only see audio from one channel.
Cool Edit ain't gonna care though, as long as you set CE to record a Mono track from the input channel that you are using (left or right).
Once you playback that mono track, it will come out of both speakers provided you have that mono track panned within CE to do so.

Think of the Audio Buddy and the cable/adapter as just an extension of the line in of your soundcard, that is also splitting up the right and left channels to two plugs.

The actual line in jack on your soundcard is two inputs, but they are within that single jack via TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve). Tip being for the left channel ... Ring for the right .... and the sleeve being the common ground for both channels.
A regular guitar cable (TS - Tip Sleeve) with a reducer to fit the 1/8" jack of the soundcard will only introduce a signal to the left channel because you are in effect only making contact with the Tip and Sleeve of the line in jack. The Ring section's contact of the line in jack is getting shorted to the sleeve (ground). Hence no signal to the right side.
Pull the plug out slightly, and you have moved the the Tip of the plug to make contact with the Ring section of the line in jack. Now you have sound on the right side.
Don't worry to much about all of that. I'm just trying to explain the fact that the line in jack has three contacts inside of it to facilitate a stereo input via a single jack.

Of all the recording programs I have and use .... Cool Edit is not one of them, so someone else will have to recommend using it for you.
About all I can suggest is .... don't beat yourself up over the fact that you can only hear the vocals/guitar out of one speaker while you sing/play.
Record mono tracks in CE, pan those tracks to taste and once you are all done with creating your multitrack song .... mix it down to a stereo track.

Good luck and happy recording.

-Ken
 
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