SPDIF vs Analog for recording?

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EddieRice

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Parden me for the elementary question but er uh...

I was always under the impression that SPDIF was a midi connection, or to record to a tape deck etc.

I too have the J-Station with L/R outs and SPDIF...

Does the SPDIF give a better recording or should I stick with the regular L/R audio outs for all recordings?

whats the scoop on this?
 
No, go with the S/PDIF! It IS a fully digital way to pass sound, not MIDI and the J-Station works well with it.

I'm using a J-Station with S/PDIF going into my Echo Mia and the sound quality is excellent (my noisefloor goes down from -70db to -100db). There is also supposed to be great advantages to doing the analog-to-digital conversion outside your noisy computer.

Get a really good cable, tho.... don't use a cheap video cable.
 
Like Tim said, with the S/PDIF your noise floor is lower so youll get more signal.....also, if you go out of the analog outputs of the J-Station you will have 2 more conversions (a D/A going out of the JS and then a A/D going into the card).....

If your card has S/PDIF inputs, theres no reason NOT to use it......
 
Wow. Thanks for asking this question Eddie. Ive been passing tracks to my pc 4x4 from the a tascam 8 track digital I have. it has optical but I have been to lazy to go and get a cable.

But, if it means better sound then my ass is heading for the store tomorrow.
 
Thanks a bunch

Thanks for the tip fellas...

Now on to sound cards.

Im looking at two options..

the 2496 or the Delta 1010..

I take it the 2496 is Midi'd latest card.

I like the idea of the direct box the 1010 has, its rack mounted and i can have all my instruments plugged in at once.

My comp is under my 24 channel mixer and I noticed the 2496 does not come with a direct box.

it would be a big pain in the butt if I had to crawl under my mixer everytume i need to plug in another instrument.

Is the 2496 and 1010 the same card basically?

I wont mind paying the extra 150.00 to have the ease of a rackmounted direct box for the 1010 if the cards are the same.

but if the 2496 is a better quality sounding card then im going that route.

I am willing to spend to get the best card on the market(outbox if possible, but not neccessary)

Whats your guys take on the difference between the 2496 vs. the 1010?

getting a fat bonus at the end of the year and plan on dumping some cash and upgrading

Any exciting new cards on the horizon that I should wait for?

You guys are the goods,

thanks!
 
hold on eddie!!!

The Delta 1010 card is by no means a direct box.

The Delta 1010 has 8 Line in and 8 line 8 sockets. - and all of the inputs are on the back of the device.

You would benefit more by connecting the aux outs or the direct outputs of your mixer to the inputs of the 2496.

I would never consider plugging an instrument straight into the 1010, because you have absolutely no control whatsoever over the signal. All the outbox does is convert Analogue signals to Digital.

As for the SPDIF, you'd be better off leaving the cable connected to the Soundcard, and then, if you have more than one spdif instrument, just swap the cables between them.

Why not tell us what basic kit you have as it is, and if I've got time, i'll recommend the best way to link it all up.

hope that helps

d
 
Hey Rochey !

Rochey, I appreciate you taking the time to help me

few takes on your response.

What im looking to do is be able to have all my instruments hooked up and ready for recording, the option to have more plug ins and not have to keep unplugging everytime you want to record a new instrument is my concern.

S/PDIF seems to be the way to record. if the rackmount box has a S/PDIF out, wouldnt anyone that uses an instrument that doenst have a S/PDIF out, plug into the box so that the signal sent is digital? ex. my Zoom 123

the only instrument that i have that has no S/PDIF is my Zoom drum machine. If i could plug in all my instruments ready for recording and plug in my Zoom 123 to convert it to digital i can do it all in one shot with the rackmount box?

Okay, now on to my 24 channel mixer..

Ill use my Zoom for example. if i plug my zoom into a power amp and have my monitors connected to the power amp i seem to get a better sound than going through my board.

reason? im not sure... but each channel on the board has its eq, and the sound is being affected by this...

If you have S/PDIF like for my J-Station, wouldnt it be better to connect straight to the card as opposed going through the board? doesnt that defeat the whole purpose of the S/PDIF?

Let me give you my specs and if you could possible point me in the right direction i would appreciate it.

CPU= XP 1700 new MSI Nvidia chipset mobo, 512 DDR ram..etc. etc. top of the line computer

Cubase 32/5

Gina card (old one 20 bit) <--- i need 24 bit

24 channel Peavey MS 2421, powered by QSC amp

J-Station --- S/PDIF outs/analog outs

Zoom 123 (love this little baby) "No" S/PDIF outs/ analog only :(

Roland RS-9 synth S/PDIF outs/analog outs

Studio rackmount, outboard Roland effects etc

Since i love the true sounds of outboard effects like my rackmount Roland this is how i was told to get the best recording. To go straight into the card and record to cubase. (record dry)

Then i can set my bus up in cubase where i can have say only tracks 1 & 2 ( the drum tracks)be the only out, then the out from the card to say channel 1 of the mixing board, from there i can loop to the rackmount effects to add some reverb to the drums and so on.

So when i get the desired sound i like, i then re-record the drums to cubase and erase the old drum tracks.

My J-station & Synth is okay to direct S/PDIF record because of the buildt in effects which are pretty decent.

So to break it down, From what im told, to get the best signal is to record S/PDIF, (if your instrument has that feature) straight to a sound card, going through a board first would defeat the S/PDIF purpose, right?

So i quess what im really trying to do here is to have all my instruments "ready" for recording along with the only non S/PDIF, my zoom so that i can convert it to digital all in one shot and have the S/PDIF outs going straight to my card

Okay, My brain hurts now... :)

With my above specs, if you or anyone can tell me the best way to get the best quality recording I would appreciate it.

Oh, and by the way, heres a link to my homepage of my first computer recordings last year. Gina 20bit card, which i still have, im a gutarist and i used my Digitech 2120 <-- nice unit, and plugged the bass straight in as well as a cheap casio i had before i got my RS-9

Eddie's Recordings

used the cubase drums for this, its all instrumental.

Thanks alot for any help anyone can provide
 
okay eddie, there are some points i feel you've missed. Others you've understood just fine.

Using a zoom to convert from analogue to digital is not necassarily a good idea.

Has it occured to you, that your Gina card may have better converters than your Zoom, and as for the 20 bit card fiasco... I'm sure that others have opinions on this topic but...

CD is 441.Khz at 16bit. Recording in 24bits, then dropping to 16bits is madness. There are many that will tell you they can hear the difference, but to the everyday person, they will not.

The more bits, the more dynamic range you have, meaning less noise at lower levels. If your recording an orchestra, then this is important as classical music is very loud, then very quiet (a wide dynamic range), if your recording modern music (and judging by the site you have - you are, you needn't worry, as modern music, has less dynamic range than classical.

I'm worried about exactly how much you know about using your mixer. All mixers give a relatively good sound, it's all about knowing how to use them properly.
It took me a while to learn to use it properly, setting the gain properly, not playing with the graphic too much, and setting the output channels correctly.

By setting up your mixer properly, i think you would really suprise yourself with the sound you'd get. - you seem to have a lot of nice gear, i know that many engineers here would kill for some of it!!!! I know for certain you can get a good balanced sound out of it. All you need to learn is good mixer use, and get a good patchbay!!!

I'll look around for a good website or something. Maybe looking at a few of the FAQ's here are homerecording.com may help.

for more on mixers, try looking here. http://www.behringer.de/eng/ultranet/mixer_abc.htm

The first paragraph or so is a bit crappy, but from there, it starts making a lot of sense.

If I've completely misuderstood your situation, please accept my apologies, but if I can help in any way, just say so.

Good Luck!!!

Rochey
 
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Hey Rochey!

Excellent information,

Im sure I speak for alot of us that are learning quite a bit from your free takes and for that I thank you, rather admirable on your part. From this I too can help others here that may soon follow with the same questions. Excellent board here.

Using a zoom to convert from analogue to digital is not necassarily a good idea. Has it occured to you, that your Gina card may have better converters than your Zoom, and as for the 20 bit card fiasco... I'm sure that others have opinions on this topic but...
Click to expand...

Finally an answer, thanks, never really took that into consideration but it does make more sense. I see now how the Good sound cards will convert the analog inputs as digital. Got it. :)

CD is 441.Khz at 16bit. Recording in 24bits, then dropping to 16bits is madness. There are many that will tell you they can hear the difference, but to the everyday person, they will not.
Click to expand...

So Im okay with the 20 bit for my type of music?, so there really is no reason for me to spend the extra $$ to upgrade? If so great! you just saved me some cash...next beers on me :)

I'm worried about exactly how much you know about using your mixer. All mixers give a relatively good sound, it's all about knowing how to use them properly.
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct. Ive always went into the studio to do my recordings and found the board from a friend for dirt cheap and couldnt pass up the price. But yes, I know the basics but Ive come to learn that although I have a rather good hear for music my mixing "ear" leaves little to be desired.

Thanks for the link, ill study it this weekend and get to understand the board a little better.

What I'd like if I could is ask you a series of questions, I would e-mail you as to not clutter ther boards but some may find this useful as well.

1) so I keep my 20 bit, no need to upgrade to 24 bit?

2) I usually record drums first. Should I go directly into the board with the Zoom then to the sound card? or straight to the card?or is it better to run the drums through the Roland for some reverb then into the sound card or should i record the drums dry first then add the reverb?

3) Should I record my J-Station & Synth via S/PDIF straight to the card or would you go through the board with these 2 as analogs?

thanks again for the help!

Eddie
 
Eddie -- I'm glad to be of help, everyone needs a hand up when they start!!!

To answer your 3 questions...

--------------------------------------------------------------------
1) so I keep my 20 bit, no need to upgrade to 24 bit?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Nah, you should be fine for now. Hell, recording studios used 16bits all the way through the 90's. Look at the Alesis ADATS - as far as I know, they were all 16bit converters.
Do some songs, and save your money up. You might be able to keep your current soundcard, and add another one, so you'll have two soundcards working in parallel!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) I usually record drums first. Should I go directly into the board with the Zoom then to the sound card? or straight to the card?or is it better to run the drums through the Roland for some reverb then into the sound card or should i record the drums dry first then add the reverb?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, i would record them dry. Take the microphones straight into the mixer, and out to the input of the soundcard. Make sure that you don't clip the signal (distort) - because drums have a really big dynamic range (difference between loud and quiet). If your Roland or Zoom has a compressor, it might be interesting to use them to compress the signal a little more.

Look on that website I gave you for good Drum positioning technique. Thats 90% of a good sound.


3) Should I record my J-Station & Synth via S/PDIF straight to the card or would you go through the board with these 2 as analogs?


Use the SPDIF -- What your JStation does is work out the numbers (the calulations) and normally pushes it straight to the SPDIF (straight digital) -- What the L&R on the JStation is the SPDIF after it has gone through a digital to analogue converter (DAC).

What your soundcard does is have Analogue to digital converters (ADC). so, picture it like this...

SPDIF ---> DAC -->ADC ---> Computer Audio

Now, use your noggin here, because it could get tough. Ask yourself why your converting a signal that is already digital, into an analogue, and back to a digital, just to have a digital signal inside your computer.

There is no need to. if your signal is originally Digital, use your spdif to get the digital straight into your computer.

If your original signal is analogue (from a microphone or something) then you should use the soundcards analogue inputs. they will convert to digital for you.

Why not have a look at this:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/sound-card.htm

it's pretty good, and explains all you need.

if you need any further help, just post here. People are always interested in little bits of information.

you can private message me here on the board too, that way, i'll remember to read this thread.


good luck

d
 
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