spacious drums !!

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jsebastiano

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probably mentioned somewhere in these forums, but why not.. i hate to compare, but i suppose it is a necessary evil in some ways..

i am happy with my kit sounds, and even my sequencing... yep. i sequence. i don't have room for a kit.. goddammit though i wish i did....

I'm attempting to achieve something in the department of tool's lateralus/aenima drums.. though only in terms of space... any suggestions on reverb settings, compression if any?
 
Here's a tip that might help you. Whether it will make your drummer/drums sound like Danny Carey on his kit is doubtful but it might make them sound more "spacious".

Insert a good convolution reverb on either your drums bus or master output. Solo all the drum tracks.

Then, what I usually do is I attenuate the kick quite a bit, along with the overheads and toms until I get a sound that's like a drum kit in a real room. I make the snare the loudest because, as you'd expect, it will be the loudest thing in a real room when a drummer is pounding away and I attenuate the kick the most because I don't want it fluttering around, confusing the listener. The trick is to fool the ear into believing the drums are in a real room. A convolution reverb works best for this because they are most realistic when it comes to real spaces. I use room impulses most often.

Then, once I've got the sound I want, I export (bounce) the results back into the project, usually as a stereo split, to two tracks, L and R. These are now my quasi-room tracks. Oh, don't forget to turn off the reverb and return the faders on the drum tracks to where they were.

I then send the L and R room signals to a group channel where I can control, smash, distort and blast them into oblivion. Mix to taste.

NB. I usually do this once I have my static drum mix pretty close to done. No use producing a room sound and then processing everything into being unidentifiable with the original.

Hope that helps.

Cheers :)
 
That does help a bit, its kinda what i've been doing, cutting the kick and anything from 8k up... i haven't been loading them in as a l and r, though it crossed my mind... are you implying though, that i keep a dry copy in the mix as well and blend the 4? i dig it... nope, i will not ever be able to sequence my drums like danny carey plays them lol.. but i use sonor samples, including his snare.... so all if i can just get a pube close to how david botrill mixed them i'll be happy like jeffrey dahlmer with a walk in freezer full of humans.
 
I didn't mean "cut" as in "cut frequencies", I meant cut as in attenuate the volume. Basically, when the plugin is loaded on your drum bus and you solo the drums, the channel faders become sends for that moment as you sculpt the balance to achieve a realistic room sound. I view the resulting reverb (and the sub-sequent L and R tracks) as the room microphones and the impulse I choose gives me the flavor I want.

And no, I am implying that you merely have a L and R ambience track that has been simulated as room mics. You mix them into the dry drum mix to taste.

Cheers :)
 
Mo Facta said:
Here's a tip that might help you. Whether it will make your drummer/drums sound like Danny Carey on his kit is doubtful but it might make them sound more "spacious".

Insert a good convolution reverb on either your drums bus or master output. Solo all the drum tracks.

Then, what I usually do is I attenuate the kick quite a bit, along with the overheads and toms until I get a sound that's like a drum kit in a real room. I make the snare the loudest because, as you'd expect, it will be the loudest thing in a real room when a drummer is pounding away and I attenuate the kick the most because I don't want it fluttering around, confusing the listener. The trick is to fool the ear into believing the drums are in a real room. A convolution reverb works best for this because they are most realistic when it comes to real spaces. I use room impulses most often.

Then, once I've got the sound I want, I export (bounce) the results back into the project, usually as a stereo split, to two tracks, L and R. These are now my quasi-room tracks. Oh, don't forget to turn off the reverb and return the faders on the drum tracks to where they were.

I then send the L and R room signals to a group channel where I can control, smash, distort and blast them into oblivion. Mix to taste.

NB. I usually do this once I have my static drum mix pretty close to done. No use producing a room sound and then processing everything into being unidentifiable with the original.

Hope that helps.

Cheers :)
Click to expand...

good stuff. I like it. Now if I can just remember all of that. :eek::D
 
gotcha, i see what u mean... before what i had been doing was in the reverb settings, was attenuating lower and higher freqs for worry of muddying things up....i think i see where your going.. just gonna keep this close by when i get around to remixing and see what happens. grazi!
 
With pop/rock drums, it's generally a good idea to have a bright room. A dark sounding room can get buried really quickly in the drum mix but as always, it's all subjective to what sound you are going for.

IMO, it's far a better idea to first sculpt the spectral balance of the reverb by sending appropriate levels of the individual drum tracks in order to emulate the drums being played in a real room. You can then apply EQ to taste, depending on how you intend to fit it in with the dry drums.

Just for interests' sake, try to smash your emulated room tracks with a processor (or a plugin emulation) of a EL Distressor, a DBX 160VU, or another compressor that is designed to completely smash a source into oblivion. With the right attack and release settings you can get the room sound to "breathe" with the drums and supply some intense energy and space to the mix. Another great plugin for this is the SSL LMC-1 (it's free):

www.solid-state-logic.com/music/LMC-1/

Also, read the backstory on it on the SSL website. It's quite interesting.

Cheers :)
 
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If you're up to spend the money, Roland SPD-30 has some awesome ambiance settings. Plus an excellent tabla program that sounds a lot like Danny's tabla.
 
BTW, I find a LOT of low end sustain can come from the room mics and combined with the right kind of compression can serve to really give that low-end "push" that we hear on a lot of great records, particularly heavy rock records.

So, I would say that when you're creating your simulated room tracks you shouldn't negate (attenuate) the kick altogether. I find I generally attenuate it about 12dB or so and that gives me the right low-end balance without killing all of it. Also, picking the right impulse is key. As always, let your ears be the judge.

Cheers :)
 
right on, i appreciate the feedback here.... what i am curious about is you mention smashing the drums to oblivion a few times... do you find that is necessary, as I have been trying to avoid throwing compression on the drums at all, except to keep the snare consistent... I have experimented with parallel compression just for the fuck of it, but that just took all the dynamic away and gave me far bigger balls then i felt necessary... I think ultimately, i am and have been attempting to get natural tones out of something unnatural... with the reverb issue being addressed and experimented with now, (and I am indeed not ignoring the kick...)

back to the smashing though, i am not closed to the idea, i may be unclear though as what your definition is of crushing them... For some reason I think of Michael Beinhorn and ed stasium....
 
wait a minute.. hot damn.. did you just link me to an ssl compressor vst??? i had no idea this existed ! thanks a million for that... i will have fun with this....
 
Yup, there are three free SSL VSTs. The X-ISM, the LMC-1, and their Halloween special edition plugin of which I can't remember the name of right now.

The X-ISM is an inter-sample peak reconstruction meter, the LMC-1 is a digital emulation of a listening mic compressor (found on the talkback mic from a famous SSL console) and the other one whose name I can not remember is a weird horror sound effect plugin. They're all useful so get 'em all.

Just so you know, the LMC-1 has a built in "colour" that sounds like a degradation effect that only works on certain things, particularly room/ambience tracks. Use it wisely, my son.

Cheers :)
 
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