soundproofing question

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stepXinXtheXmix

stepXinXtheXmix

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I have two identical rooms, both 16x10 that I want to turn in to control / drum rooms. They are in the middle of a church building. The ceilings are raised and they are on the second floor. HELP, I'm expecting to do quite a bit of work but where to start? The church is adding on to their existing building and its possible they will add this into the budget. What is suggested for the floor and ceiling? The walls are dry-walled and I doubt they have insulation, pretty sure they are aluminum studs also.
 
Is the floor concrete?

How high is the ceiling?

What are your main concerns? Isolating the floor and ceiling?
 
Is the floor concrete?

How high is the ceiling?

What are your main concerns? Isolating the floor and ceiling?

The floor is just plywood and carpet on 2x6's or 2'12's, no concrete. To the initial ceiling tile it's 8' above that to the actual roof its another 12'+. The main concern is isolating the rooms from everything around....I know it's impossible to completely to this, but as long at the control room and drum room are isolated from each other that's the main thing....
 
The best advice I can give you is to read this book. Actually, read it twice before you even think about starting this project. It has pretty much everything you need to know and is presented in a very organized and readable way.
 
The best advice I can give you is to read this book. Actually, read it twice before you even think about starting this project. It has pretty much everything you need to know and is presented in a very organized and readable way.

Don't have that much time....need just some price to put a cost on this thing....
 
Don't have that much time....need just some price to put a cost on this thing....
If you don't have time now, you won't have time or the ability to FIX what you left out or didn't understand how to do correctly. SOUNDPROOFING...especially on a second floor is a lesson in hindsight should you try to ESTIMATE a per foot cost WITHOUT understnding what it is you have to do in the first place. I seriously suggest you buy Rods book. He IS the expert. Otherwise I would submit a estimated cost of $120 sf. However, without any info to go on, like:
WHO is going to provide the labor
What is your Transmission Loss target?
What is the existing floor construction?..i.e. ..will it support additional weight? Mass=weight...which is what it takes for "soundproofing".
I suggest including the cost of Structural Engineering/consultation costs as well.
Do you have a predefined budget limit?
.... it could go lower or higher. However, guessing is actually ludicrous at this point.:rolleyes:
 
If you don't have time now, you won't have time or the ability to FIX what you left out or didn't understand how to do correctly. SOUNDPROOFING...especially on a second floor is a lesson in hindsight should you try to ESTIMATE a per foot cost WITHOUT understnding what it is you have to do in the first place. I seriously suggest you buy Rods book. He IS the expert. Otherwise I would submit a estimated cost of $120 sf. However, without any info to go on, like:
WHO is going to provide the labor
What is your Transmission Loss target?
What is the existing floor construction?..i.e. ..will it support additional weight? Mass=weight...which is what it takes for "soundproofing".
I suggest including the cost of Structural Engineering/consultation costs as well.
Do you have a predefined budget limit?
.... it could go lower or higher. However, guessing is actually ludicrous at this point.:rolleyes:

$38,000, you've lost you're mind. I could build a small studio for that. I just want to revamp the room, this doesn't have to be an elaborate project. I'm saying $3,000 most. I work for an engineering company, that's why they came to me. The labor's not an issue. What can be done? Obviously I'd have to put in a solid ceiling instead of the tiling. I'm thinking of covering the floor with another layer of 3/4" play and then bamboo flooring for the drum room floor. Putting the drum room ceiling on a slope not much but enough to open it up a little(I have 12' above to play with) Putting bamboo on the ceiling with some inset diffusers. Angling the corners to a 45* and stuffing them for bass traps. I mean am I on the right track here? I really don't have time cause the church is closing on their loan in a week and if they are going to do this they need to know a cost.
 
Hey dude, the thing is, if your dealing with an iso problem on the second floor you are looking at probably having to build a solid floating shell, meaning, not touching any other part of the structure this requires a certian amount of experience in the field. if this is a DIY project then prepare for some insanity. if you are interested in hiring some outside help I may be able to hook you up with the right people. and a quote.
 
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I have two identical rooms, both 16x10 that I want to turn in to control / drum rooms. They are in the middle of a church building.

The floor is just plywood and carpet on 2x6's or 2'12's, no concrete.
:rolleyes:
You don't even know what the SUPPORT structure is????:eek: And you want to add 4 tons of drywall? ahhhh...I think you need to do some investigation.

HELP, I'm expecting to do quite a bit of work but where to start?
I told you where to start.:rolleyes: geeeezus, some people just don't get it.

$38,000, you've lost you're mind.
No, I'm not. Considering the size of the rooms, on a second floor.

I could build a small studio for that.
Well, isn't that EXACTLY what you are planning on building? Afterall, you told us this...
I have two identical rooms, both 16x10 that I want to turn in to control / drum rooms.

Sounds like a studio to me:rolleyes:

I'm saying $3,000 most.
Excuse me?:confused: I thought you wanted to do this:

The main concern is isolating the rooms from everything around....
Maybe on your planet.:rolleyes: I'd submit you are the one who has lost his mind.
 
Yeah, really dude, if you cant throw at least 20g at this your not going to get much in the way of isolation and it is extremely important that you know what you are trying to build in and on. Recording studios are an involved process and you may just need more time than you have in order to plan if you want to do it even a little bit right. my suggestion is that you dont put any time or money into it until you are really ready to jump in. And dont be totally disheartened.
 
Guys, please play nice. Clearly this guy is not trying to build a commercial facility and there is a lot of good stuff you can do for $3k. Jeez, a friend of mine built a floating room within his garage with air con and all treaments for £2k. And that sucker is virtually soundproof and sounds excellent on tape.

It sounds like there's a couple of spare rooms they want to put some gear in but have to make it less noisey for everyone else in the building. What can he do on the cheap? Deaden the ceiling? Pack the corners? Float a floor? Cover the windows?

The brains in the Studio Building forum are more than capable of coming up with some frugal ideas ............ and after all, to use the tired old argument, since when did anyone doing HOME RECORDING(.com) spend tens of thousands on their hobby setup?
 
Guys, please play nice. Clearly this guy is not trying to build a commercial facility and there is a lot of good stuff you can do for $3k. Jeez, a friend of mine built a floating room within his garage with air con and all treaments for £2k.
Just to clarify something here. He is the one that said
The main concern is isolating the rooms from everything around....

This is on a SECOND FLOOR...taking his statement at face value suggests that Transmission loss is the goal...and with very little info given..I gave a HIGH estimate BECAUSE its on a second floor. Anytime you plan on HIGH transmission loss on a second floor...you are dealing with STRUCTURAL FAILURE!:eek::rolleyes: Hence the high dollar estimate. Yea, you can spend $3k and attain a somewhat soundproof studio. To what degree is the question. But then...GIVEN existing 2x6 floor joist construction possibility..another possibility exists of STRUCTURAL FAILURE! Hence my suggestions. I wasn't trying to give this guy a hard time. Only open his inexperienced eyes to the possible problems he faces..UNLESS he does some preliminary investigation and reading. Not only that, we haven't even touched on HVAC/ventilation info:rolleyes:

Remember...he's talking a DRUM ROOM on a second floor MEMBRANE which trying to resolve cheaply is a lesson in hindsight. Usually, decoupling a room is the only option...which translates into WEIGHT. Hence my suggestion of a structural engineer consultation.

Anyway, I'm all ears and am here to help. But we need INFO! However, these types of projects(upper floors) are always subject to structural integrety problems and anyone who helps is at risk of placing someone and himself in jeprody. Thats the REAL reason for my suggestion FIRST and FOREMOST.

Not only that, but since this is a PUBLIC building, there are inherent BUILDINGCODES that can restrict certain types of construction. Just flying by the seat of your pants and going ahead and building withOUT a permit, can evolve into all sorts of liability issues. THAT is the real problem:rolleyes:
fitZ
 
Rick comes across a little dramatically, but I think he's right.
OP said he wants to isolate, has a weak structure, on the second floor with (according to his details) adjoining spaces.
OP should take a step back, especially if he is an engineering type.
This will very likely be expensive and time consuming to do safely and efficiently.
At a minimum an architect will need to be involved (and likely a structural engineer to sign off on plans). That right there ought to tell OP that this is no place for quick, seat of the pants estimates.
Worst case - you have structural collapse, fire and damage to other adjoining structures.
Best case - you have potential for all of that and markedly inefficient transmission loss as well.
Yes, there are often low cost efficient solutions to some challenges in sound, but in this instance is does not look wise (or possibly even legal) to go that route.
How about OP send us some pictures?
cheers
C.
 
Guys, please play nice. Clearly this guy is not trying to build a commercial facility and there is a lot of good stuff you can do for $3k. Jeez, a friend of mine built a floating room within his garage with air con and all treaments for £2k. And that sucker is virtually soundproof and sounds excellent on tape.


With all respect, noisedude, you either didn't grok the initial post or you are short a big stack of clues. He wants to soundproof two rooms. On the second floor of a church... with three grand. I spent more than that on plans and permits. I spent twice that much on treatment. I spent six months planning the build, and I still screwed up a number of things.

There's plenty more fun things to waste $3,000 on. Rick is completely right, the OP is completely wrong. Rick is trying to save this guy money and aggravation - we all are.

noisedude said:
to use the tired old argument, since when did anyone doing HOME RECORDING(.com) spend tens of thousands on their hobby setup?

I spent exponentially more than that, noisedude. Many of us here have done so. If he wants to make a cool couple of rooms to record in that sound good, no problem. That isn't what the fellow asked for.
 
how about this. stepXinXtheXmix, I will tell you how to get good isolation but the materials alone for doing it the traditional way in such a large space are (market value) going to be between 1500 and 2000 dollars... for the shell. and its a pain in the ass to build. alot of man hours of labor. and im not even talking internal acoustics yet. maybe we can work out a cheaper, unconventional method but i make no promises.

i suggest asking for as much as you feel comfortable with for the renovation and then get in touch with me and ill do my best to share how to get the most for your money. I really suggest going all out though and asking for a waay bigger budget than you think necessary. I can set you up with an actual blueprint if you have the budget for design and consultation. if not i can at least try to point you in the right direction.

and its not always easy to convince local building inspectors that the things we do in sound rooms is entirely safe or legal.

I dont think its impossible to get what you want out of this but i think the scale might be different than you originally thought. totally worth it though totally.
 
With all respect, noisedude, you either didn't grok the initial post or you are short a big stack of clues. He wants to soundproof two rooms. On the second floor of a church... with three grand. I spent more than that on plans and permits. I spent twice that much on treatment. I spent six months planning the build, and I still screwed up a number of things.

There's plenty more fun things to waste $3,000 on. Rick is completely right, the OP is completely wrong. Rick is trying to save this guy money and aggravation - we all are.

I'm not short any clues, thanks. This guy clearly can't be expecting to actually soundproof these rooms, he said 'this doesn't have to be an elaborate project', but he wants improve the isolation. In fact, he came up with some pretty good thoughts himself.

And for a masterclass on constructive criticism rather than condescension and rolleyes smilies, see oblackmer's posts in this thread.



I spent exponentially more than that, noisedude. Many of us here have done so. If he wants to make a cool couple of rooms to record in that sound good, no problem. That isn't what the fellow asked for.

I'm glad for you that you're so wealthy. Most of us, though, will never have that sort of income to blow on evenings and weekends. ;)
 
i suggest asking for as much as you feel comfortable with for the renovation and then get in touch with me and ill do my best to share how to get the most for your money.

Do it here, and then the DIY/home hobbyist community gets the benefit of you guys' experience of planning it and making it happen.:)
 
I really like this document for soundproofing. Helped me a lot with my basement 'studio' soundproofing attempts.

http://www.acoustics101.com/common/acoustics101v3_0.pdf

Obviously, it pushes the Auralex products, but there is lots of knowledge that you can use in it regardless of brands in it.

My basement studio is quite small (8' X 12'), and i did most of the work in it.

- Sub floor assembled with prefabbed plywood squares with plastic on bottom
- Resilient metal channels on wall studs
- Roxul AFB insulation in about 50% of the walls (all i could find locally .. and to get more was going to take 8 weeks!)
- Resilient channels, Roxul in ceiling.
- 5/8th gyrock.
- Acoustical caulking.
- Paint and primer
- Floating 'click' floor
- Trim
- Solid Core doors (X3).. .bought for 50$ each

I spent just under 5000$ Canadian for this.

For the Roxul alone, to buy enough to do the whole room was going to be $1800 CAN.

And my point? none .. other than giving the OP an idea of what it cost me to do a very small room in the basement of a house, cutting as many corners as i could. His project would be much more complex.
 
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