Soundcraft M8 best configuration/connection to PC sound card

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arcadios

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Hello, first post here.
I hope it's the right place for the question.

Well...

I am about to buy the soundcraft M8 mixer.
I have been reading for about a week everything I could find in the internet about it.
Unfortunatelly there is info given that is contradictory even by the company.
I ask these questions In order to define If it is possible to record in a convenient way with this mixer that if I am not wrong It only has 1 stereo bus available(plus the direct outs, but I would like to see if I can work with the mix outs first)
I have 2 soniccore PCI soundcards and available 2 analog in outs and 2 digital in outs(XLR and RCA, tha same with the digital...the oone is AES/EBU and the other spdif RCA plug.
BUT manily intersted in using the 2 analog in/outs, 1 stereo XLR bal in/out., and 1 stereo RCA in/out.... with the soundcraft M8

1. when I press a channels PFL, the channel is heard only mono in the monitor outs?
2. when I plug phones, the monitor out is Cut?(M8 pdf manual says No, but other company advertisement says that monitor outs are Cut for convenient listening)
3. Can I press aux1 master 1 AFL and aux2 Master 2 AFL and listen through the monitor outs both of them simultaneously but stereo??
4. Direct outpus are TS(unbalanced)?
5. monitor outputs are TS(unbalanced)?
6. "P/B(playback) replace mix" also replaces mix in digital(spdif) out? or I can have P/B replace mix through XLR outs and "main Mix through SPDIF at the same time?

If something else comes in mind I will ask.
Looking forward for your answer
 
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The M8 is a nice mixer--decent pre amps and good, musical EQ. The direct out make it ideal for recording purposes.

...and, for that reason, I can't help but think you're going a very difficult way around to achieve what (I think) you want.

Use the direct outs to feed to your computer. Bring the output(s) back into the mixer onto a pair of the stereo inputs. Use a pre fade Aux (1 or 2) to create a headphone mix for the performer and the mixer's own monitor facility to feed your speakers. Using the direct outs, you can tweak the mix in the speakers without affecting what's going into your computer for recording.

If I've misunderstood what you want to do, let me know and I'll try again.
 
thanks, but let's take it from the very start.

In fact I want to be sure that I can send to the singer to listen to the daw sound when he is singing since I use my cards dsp very nice reverb, and at the same time I can monitor what he is listening simultaneously.
If the mic(lets say channel 1) is with fader up, then I will have feedback. So in that case I need the channel 1 to be recorded but listening to the mix from ...other bus??? M8 does not have.
Or is it that I am going to send direct out(pre- and fader down) the channel1?? and then listening to the pc card output that comes to the mixer stereo as you said?? Is that what you advice me?
 
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If you're recording from a channel direct out into your sound card, you can do what you want with the master section outputs (main outs, monitor outs, etc.) without affecting the recording. Bring the output of your DAW back into the mixer on one of the stereo pair inputs (the last four faders) and you can create one or more monitor mixes. For example, you could use the Main Outs to drive your monitor speakers and the headphone jack paralleled with the Monitor outs for the headphone mix. Or, if you have access to something you can use as a headphone amp, a trick I often use is to dedicate the pre-fade auxes (3 and 4) to create one headphone mix for the performer leaving me to have my own mix to check the dry recording quality. There's a fair bit of flexibility built in so a bit of experimenting might be in order.

By the way, just to confirm, most of the quarter inch jack outs on the M8 are TRS balanced feeds, not TS unbalanced.

Two things you'll want to watch out for:

First, you don't want your monitor speakers turned up while tracking if you're in the same room. At very least, they'll muddy the recording and, if turned up loud, might cause some feedback. That's one reason why it's good to have separate outputs for the speakers and the headphones.

Second, you mention using the sound card effects. Have you checked that you can do this without creating too much delay (latency)? Some sound cards work nicely in real time, others are a bit slow.
 
well I record vocals in another room and therefore I have my monitors always on.
and headphones the same as monitor out. Also soniccore cards are very good in realtime.

by the way.... I hope that when I plug the phones, monitor out still stays on... isn't that right???

Also you mentioned something about aux 3 and 4 pre? I thought theu are always post.. but anyway. can you please be more specific?
Also how do aux AFL master 1,2,3,4 work? when pressed they give a mono signal to monitors?

If I want to have stereo sends to the performers? I use individual channels with pan turned hard left and right?
thanks again
 
The Aux masters just affect the level to the Aux send sockets 1-4. You can create a mix by using the Aux sends on each channels then change the overall level of that mix (without changing the balance) by using the master. The Aux sends are separate to the main mix section (unless you use the Return function and route that to the main mix). The AFL switch sends these signals to the monitors instead of the main mix--like PFL on the channels but only if the Aux fader is up.

Yes, auxes 1 and 2 are pre fader and 3 and 4 are post fader.

By the way, you also have a switch to determine whether the direct outs are pre or post fader--there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

You can plug in headphones without muting the monitor speakers. The level control on the monitor speakers affects the headphone level but you can use the headphone knob to compensate--see page 21 in the manual.
 
well thanks.....
.....and about the directouts.
direct out pre bypasses all of the channel(eq, pan, aux,??) or just the fader?
can I have directout pre using the aux sends of the channel?
Also when the channel is muted in order to avoid feedback to the mix return of the daw can I still use direct outs pre or post?

.....about the spdif output, I have read that it is 44.1 16bit, but some other info says 44.1 24bit..what is correct? Also, is it's quality ok?.. I mean, is it working ok realtime sending the mix in a daw for recording?
 
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I bought it!!!

Thank you Bobbsy for the accurate info you gave me.
Now I hope that my mixer is going to be working fine for a long time.

Well, now that I have it and use it , I can answer at the questions I made by my self, and maybe make some other questions.

Meters leds have the usual 3 colours.... green - orange - and red.. but 2 steps of RED??? Why is that?
 
arcadios said:
I bought it!!!

Meters leds have the usual 3 colours.... green - orange - and red.. but 2 steps of RED??? Why is that?
Click to expand...

Ah, that's because clipping is different in the analogue world. With digital, the red "clipping" level is 0dBFS, the point at which every bit in your sample is a "1" and there's nowhere else to go. Below zero, all sounds good, above zero, all sounds good.

In analogue, there's no absolute level when things go bad. As levels get higher, extra distortion starts to creep in but there's no single point at which good turns to bad. The distortion will gradually go from .008% (the nominal figure for the Soundcraft) to higher numbers.

Anyway, the two red LEDs represent +12 and +15dBu which are still at a point when the board will sound pretty good but they act as a warning that you're getting close to hitting really bad stuff which will probably start at about +18dBu.
 
And if I want to make the exact connection to my scope card leds and M8 leds, what is the exact matching of these numbers?
Soniccore cards software mixer modules clip at "0" db. M8 clips at +15??? Also M8 has the 0db leds but these are in the green area of the meters.
I am a little confused !
 
It's the different scales used in the analogue and digital worlds.

In digital, it's dBFS (Full Scale) which has its zero point where digital clipping sets in. In analogue, at an arbitrary voltage which represents zero, generally around 18dB below the point where serious clipping sets in. In analogue you have lots of headroom (generally about 18dB) above the zero point on the meters; in digital, all your headroom has to be below zero.

The norm is to make the analogue zero level equivalent to -18dBFS on a digital scale and to run so your analogue meters are averaging at the top of the green with occasional peaks triggering one or two of the yellow LEDs.
 
I am working on M8 almost a year, following in general terms your advice.
Everything works really nice!

Thank you very much for the help!!
 
Thanks for coming back and letting us know how you're getting on! It's always nice to have a success story!
 
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