Sound System

[sasmfb]

I have been asked to find a good sound system for my chorus.
We would like it to be portable, easy to operate, support at least two mics, output to cassette (external) for recording and input from cassette and/or CD (external) for broadcast. It needs to have enough power for an audience of approximately 250.

I have seen a few systems that I like and that have all the bells and whistles we could ever need but they are way too expensive. Any ideas?

 

[Gidge]

how many $$$ are you looking to spend and what type venues will u be playing (size wise)?....

 

[sasmfb]

They are hoping to keep the cost to around $400.00. I'm not sure that is even possible. The venue would normally be around 800 to 1000 square feet.

What about used equipment?

 

[Treeline]

That's not a budget, that's a downpayment.

Portable, easy to operate, and OK for 1000 sq. feet = Fender Passport 250. Even that (a limited system) is going to set you back about $750 - 800 with decent speaker cables and a couple of speaker stands.

How big is the chorus, and does it sing at the same place all the time? Good room acoustics? How about background noises? Are you trying to get kids to sing (shudder) the same tune at the same time, or are these adults of consenting age that you can appropriately abuse with a recording of how they Really Sound, to get them to shape up for the concerts...

It seems to me that the real sound is going to be in the mics. How about springing for a couple of condenser mics with appropriate booms or stands, and renting a system when you need it? That way you could put the money in the mics.

If you rent a system, you could get a few hundred watts in the head, a small mixer (or a combination amp / mixer setup) and an outboard graphic equalizer to tame an unruly room. That way, you spend the money on the mics and the occasional system rental is a cost of doing business.

Check the archives in the microphone forum; there's enough information there to choke a small horse. . . Good luck; chorus micing is a challenge!

 

[JimH]

I'm no mathematician, but 250 people into 1000 sq. ft. sounds a little cramped. Four sq. ft. per person?

 

[sonusman]

Here is a little example.

The club I work in had an audience area of 36X36'. Works out to just about 1000 square foot. I have seen 280 people in their and indeed is was VERY cramped!!!

We have a 12,000, 4 way sound system. There are 20 drivers!!! (8x18" subs, 4x15", 4X12", and 4x2" compression drivers with mid throw horns, which are really a bit too big for the room, thus I have a bit of a problem delivering smooth high end to the audience area, which will be fixed when we finally fly the speakers later this year).

Of course we do very loud bands, with a very noisy crowd, but this gives you an idea of what kind of power you need to get a get music over a crowd.

I don't think your budget is realistic by a long shot! EXPECT to need around 2000 watts of power as a minimum for a room that size.

As a start, I would maybe look into possibly the JBL TR series stuff, and maybe Yorkville amps. The speakers are going to be a bit bigger than you want, but with them, and at least 2k watts, you are going to have far less problems with people hearing even spoken word, and you won't be blowing drivers all over the place. Trust me, if you try to work with very limited wattage, you will either have very inadequate sound, or WILL blow a lot of drivers. Sorry, but in my best professional opinion, with having absolutely no interest in telling you otherwise for any financial benefit, I am telling you this out of years of watching people not spend the money for a competent PA for their purposes. Before this club started renting this sound system, they had a 4K watt system, and were blowing drivers every week. In the end, they spent as much money fixing stuff as they would have buying an adequate system to start with. There is little hope of them getting their money back out of what they purchased because of the laws of buying/selling stuff just don't work that way. Also, they had to deal with blow drivers, and the time spend taking them out, delivering them to the reconing shop, and putting them back in. At $80 a pop, and their labor, you can see how frustrating and uneconomical this was! Plus, even when working, the system just didn't sound that good because it was being pushed above the level it was designed to give good sound at. Plus it was gear that they "could afford" and that usually means Peavey or Carvin, and that mean far less "usable" watts then what it is rated at.

Do yourself a favor and invest in something that is a bit more than you "think" you need. In the end, you will be praising my name for taking that advice.....

Ed

 

[Treeline]

Ed's got a point, fer sure, and he's speaking from experience.

My point was that something is better than nothing, you have a small room, and (no) budget. You can still accomplish something worthwhile without dropping $5,000 on the beginnings of a pro system.

I just finished wiring a new ceiling system for the parish hall at our local church. Not much now, but it replaced blown junk (as Sonusman suggested) that people had endured for the last 20 years or so. There had been a 70 volt blue light special kind of thing with ten speakers on one circuit, pulling 3 or 4 ohms and hooked up to a Radio Shack P.A. amp. A few of the speakers were blown, and the rest "worked," so to speak. The whole thing came to a head when some preamps burned out. Then there was that in-wall mic circuit that ran along a hot copper pipe. Mmmmm.

Now we have twin 8-ohm arrays, with a modest (200 watt or so) stereo amp planned somewhere down the line after we raid the coffee money for a few months. At least it now has a mixer... and you can actually hear. But the overall sound quality -- AAK. We need a real amp before this one gets hot again. And an outboard EQ. And, and, and...