Sound insulation from neighbours above for hip hop crew

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moltar

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We are looking to rent a small room in one of the buildings. The room has nothing, it's just a room on it's own, so landlord is willing to rent it out for cheap. The only neighbours are above the room, nobody in the basement, nobody on the same floor.

The question is. How do we make sure we do not get noise complaints from people above us?

We aren't that noisy to begin with. The only noise we have is 1) from recording vocals, person is usually yelling into the mic, and 2) from playing back the recordings with beats (bass << key problem).

I was thinking of getting sheets of OC407 (or whatever the right code is), and layering them in the ceiling. Maybe also make a few bass traps and stuff them into room corners.

What do you pros think? :)

:eek:
 
moltar said:
We are looking to rent a small room in one of the buildings. The room has nothing, it's just a room on it's own, so landlord is willing to rent it out for cheap. The only neighbours are above the room, nobody in the basement, nobody on the same floor.

The question is. How do we make sure we do not get noise complaints from people above us?

We aren't that noisy to begin with. The only noise we have is 1) from recording vocals, person is usually yelling into the mic, and 2) from playing back the recordings with beats (bass << key problem).

I was thinking of getting sheets of OC407 (or whatever the right code is), and layering them in the ceiling. Maybe also make a few bass traps and stuff them into room corners.

What do you pros think? :)

:eek:
Click to expand...
OC703, bass traps, etc. are all for acoustic treatment within a room. They do nothing for sound isolation.

The best thing to do is to determine the amount of isolation you need. Once you know this, we can help you design a system to achieve this.
 
Hello,

A suspended ceiling full of rockwool, maybe even R30 fiberglass insulation, and finished with acoustic tiles should handle a lot of volume issues. Don't forget about vibration...get some "mo pads" or similar to decouple your monitor speakers from your desk. Hang a moving blanket or similar over the entry door too.

Good Luck,
Scott
 
Hello again,

first determine which material you are going to use for sound absorption,
Example: If you use R30 insulation you will need 9-10 inches of clearance.
So your "drop ceiling" would hang down 10 inches.

Scott.

Heres a cheesy video but it has useful info for sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrBWCwtlUT4
 
moltar,

Soundproofing an existing building to avoid complaints from Upstairs neighbors is most likely cost prohibitive. A better strategy is trying to make friends with them; and work out an agreeable schedule.

Soundproofing is very difficult. I worked with an acoustic engineer to soundproof an industrial building. This was new construction. Concrete floor, concrete block walls, and metal roofing. The objective was to reduce the predicted 120 dB interior noise level to less than 55 dB, when measured 50-feet outside the building. 55dB is still very noticeable....it just doesn't deafen most people.

The weekest link in our building system was the ceiling and metal roofing. We ended up with 3-layers of 5/8" sheetrock below the ceiling trusses and 6" batt insulation above it; then a 12" air gap above the insulation; then another 3-layers of sheet rock above the air gap; and another bed of 6" insulation on top of that. It worked... but just barely meet our 65 dB reduction goal. But, the remaining 55 dB would be plenty loud enoungh to get complaints from an upstairs neighbor.

Rich Smith
 
Can you screw up another layer of drywall? That'd probably be a lot more efficient, and definately a lot cheaper. More mass == better isolation. Of course it also makes it harder to control your acoustics, since all that sound that WOULD have dissipated is now bouncing all over the inside of your room... So fixing one problem will help cause another. Just make sure you aren't exceeding structural limits (google up on live/dead load limits)

I have a foot of R30 and a drop ceiling in my basement, and it really doesn't do a whole lot in the bass department. Isolation gets better and better them more you climb up the freq spectrum, but for the lo's, forget it.. Plus you'd lose a foot of headroom, is that acceptable? My R30 is inside the joist cavities where it'd otherwise be open air, and it doesn't cost me any height in the room.

And I didn't require heavy isolation, I own the house so I can make anyone who doesn't like it gtfo :D. How to determine "How much isolation do you require?" - If you can coordinate with the upstairs neighbors, crank it up in your room and go up there and see how loud it is. Find out how loud you can be without pissing everyone off. How far apart are those 2 volume levels? Is it even possible to bridge that gap practically?

In a lot of cases it's easier to work out rules like "No drums after 9pm" or whatever. Soundproofing as an afterthought just about never works well.
 
True...no matter what you end up doing, go make friends first :)

Scott.
 
Yeah hopefully it isn't some mommy with 3 kids on rotating nap schedules... OTOH, there could be some milfy side-action there, so it might be a wash :p GL however it works out,
 
scott free said:
Hello,

A suspended ceiling full of rockwool, maybe even R30 fiberglass insulation, and finished with acoustic tiles should handle a lot of volume issues. Don't forget about vibration...get some "mo pads" or similar to decouple your monitor speakers from your desk. Hang a moving blanket or similar over the entry door too.
Click to expand...

Sorry man, but that's just not true. The OP will need a whole lot more mass than that to handle the low frequency stuff he's talking about. An ACT ceiling with R30 will attenuate *some* higher frequency stuff, but for the most part there would be little or no reduction anywhere else.

Basically the OP would be looking at at least two more layers of sheet rock with Green Glue between them, plus some R30 or equivalent. That would give them 30-35dB STC, which isn't bad...but it's not a lot. He's still have to work out a schedule with the neighbors. Decoupling the monitors is a good thing to do acoustically and from an isolation standpoint. The blanket won't do a thing.

Frank
 
Rich Smith said:
moltar,

Soundproofing an existing building to avoid complaints from Upstairs neighbors is most likely cost prohibitive. A better strategy is trying to make friends with them; and work out an agreeable schedule.
Click to expand...
I very much agree :D
 
Weasel9992 said:
Basically the OP would be looking at at least two more layers of sheet rock with Green Glue between them...

Frank
Click to expand...

Is this Green Glue available to individuals (i.e., not just wholesale)? If so, where could I find some and for how much approximately?

To minimize the amount of sound coming into and going out of the room, I'm blocking up a large window in my proposed studio, using sheets of 5/8" sheetrock cut to size to set into that window. I'm thinking that this Green Glue stuff might be a worthwhile thing to add to the construction.

Thanks!
 
Yeah, just google it, a buncha places carry it. It'll say how much to use per sq ft and application instructions and whatever. It's used between 2 sheets, like the peanut butter in a sandwich, to help isolate the 2 sheets from each other a little more. I doubt it'd be any better on corners than regular caulk.
 
Weasel9992 said:
Sorry man, but that's just not true. The OP will need a whole lot more mass than that to handle the low frequency stuff he's talking about. An ACT ceiling with R30 will attenuate *some* higher frequency stuff, but for the most part there would be little or no reduction anywhere else.

Basically the OP would be looking at at least two more layers of sheet rock with Green Glue between them, plus some R30 or equivalent. That would give them 30-35dB STC, which isn't bad...but it's not a lot. He's still have to work out a schedule with the neighbors. Decoupling the monitors is a good thing to do acoustically and from an isolation standpoint. The blanket won't do a thing.

Frank
Click to expand...

OK, Thanks,
Scott.
 
Doowah said:
Is this Green Glue available to individuals (i.e., not just wholesale)? If so, where could I find some and for how much approximately?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is. You can get a 12-pack of tubes for about $170 or a bucket for about $155 I think. It works *very* well for its intended purpose.

Frank
 
However, you may not need it. Getting to know your neighbours, and testing the system as is, will determine this.
 
suprstar said:
Yeah, just google it, a buncha places carry it. It'll say how much to use per sq ft and application instructions and whatever. It's used between 2 sheets, like the peanut butter in a sandwich, to help isolate the 2 sheets from each other a little more. I doubt it'd be any better on corners than regular caulk.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Found 3 or 4 distributors in my area, just need to see if they'll sell in quantities less than a case of 12 tubes. It's kinda pricey, but it should help in my application. I was worried about deep bass notes being transmitted through the layers of sheetrock and out through the glass window, but this Green Glue stuff should serve to de-couple the sheets from each other somewhat and reduce those transmissions, if I understand its effect correctly.

I swear, I get a good tip or another useful bit of knowledge every day on this forum.
 
Yes, it is. You can get a 12-pack of tubes for about $170 or a bucket for about $155 I think. It works *very* well for its intended purpose.
Click to expand...
Personally, since this is a rental, I'd think TWICE about doing anything that requires fastening HEAVY things to the ceiling. Frankly, you don't have a clue about the EXISTING CONSTRUCTION. And neither do I. However, unless you find out some info on how this room is built, you are at risk. Not only that, but just adding mass to an existing structure may not even solve the problem.
Let me put it this way. Many older multi-family buildings use HVAC systems that are COMMON to other suites/apartments. This is a perfect FLANKING PATH that can negate ANY solution you try. Furthermore, to overcome Low frequency vibration in the building structural assemblies, such as a wood floor membrane, will simply transmit to other areas. Especially in OLDER wood constructions. Newer, concrete partitions, floors and walls are another animal entirely. However, without knowing EXACTLY what you are dealing with here, I submit you are spittin in the wind speculating and gambling the solutions previously advised will work.

As to the Green Glue...take a look here...

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/library/green_glue_testing/


Look at the rows of data. You will see a SOURCE side, and a RECIEVE side. What this means is unless you know what the SHEITHING or assembly is on both sides, you can't even guess at the STC improvement. Not only that, but for the cost of GREENGLUE, unless you are COMPLETELY sheithing the ENTIRE room, compared to the cost of drywall, the improved transmission loss may not even justify the expense.

I mean, for 12 tubes, at TWO TUBES PER DOUBLE SHEET of drywall, thats an area equivelent to 6 sheets of 4'x8'..or 192 sq. ft. Thats only a ceiling for a room approx 14'x14'. If one layer of drywall is say $8 per sheet, thats only $48 per layer for the drywall..or $96 for TWO layers. As you can see, the Greenglue is 1 1/2 times the cost of the drywall. And for what...a db or two improvement over just 2 layers of drywall, since you can't add Greenglue or drywall to the RECIEVE side.:rolleyes: Yes, Greenglue definetely improves STC and makes the two layers act as one(coincidence dip alteration...don't ask me to explain:)). However, unless you can address ALL WEAK LINKS...I submit you are wasting money and time.

That is unless you have deep pockets in the first place.:D And given possible existing flanking paths, wood membrane floors and ceilings(vs concrete), well, I hope you get my drift. Ok, thats my .02 I'll shut up now.

fitZ
 
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